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Post by ordenenfundamentet on Jul 19, 2008 17:58:28 GMT
Good Day!
I am curious, how exactly does these degrees work? Are they based on how much each person learn? Are there exams of some sort? Do one have duties, wich when accomplished make you advance? Or do you get your degrees threw time only?
Best regards Chris
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Post by hollandr on Jul 19, 2008 22:27:07 GMT
Hello Chris
The amount of progress and testing varies a lot between the various forms of Masonry.
On one extreme there are Grand Lodges that confer multiple degrees over a weekend workshop - by observation rather than participation and at the other extreme there are Grand Lodges that require years between degrees - rather like an operative apprenticeship lasting 7 years.
More commonly there will be a requirement of some months (up to a year), a minimum number of meetings attended, proficiency in the secrets of the previous degree and the ability to answer from memory a set of test questions.
Some lodges will also require the apprentice or fellowcraft to deliver a short talk on some aspect of Masonry.
A small minority of lodges is more focused on spiritual matters and/or traditional practices and those lodges will tend to set more demanding standards
In my lodge there is an increasing interest amongst brethren in researching the meaning of the ritual and giving talks on what they have found. I hope that it will become a lodge requirement for each apprentice and fellowcraft to deliver a talk based on their own researches before being admitted to the next degree
Cheers
Russell
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Post by corab on Jul 20, 2008 0:34:30 GMT
I hope that it will become a lodge requirement for each apprentice and fellowcraft to deliver a talk based on their own researches before being admitted to the next degree That is, indeed a current requirement in our lodges, although I must qualify that somewhat -- the Piece of Architecture (as we call those presentations) does not lead directly to admission to the next degree, but means that the Brother's request to be admitted to a higher degree will be considered.
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Post by jerohm on Aug 3, 2008 21:55:31 GMT
In my french lodge (DH), the "supervisor" (I'm not sure it is the right translation...) tell to the other members of the lodge that the brother (or the sister) is ready for the next degree. The borther or the sister has to present a personal work (the theme could have been chosen by the supervisor, or the brother can choose himself, it depends). Then, the "supervisor" and the "speaker" (I'm sure there is a better translation ;D ) ask questions. Then, there is a vote of the members which have the degree whom the candidate hope to access
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Post by corab on Aug 3, 2008 22:07:00 GMT
Do you mean the Grand Expert and the Orateur? In my french lodge (DH), the "supervisor" (I'm not sure it is the right translation...) tell to the other members of the lodge that the brother (or the sister) is ready for the next degree. The borther or the sister has to present a personal work (the theme could have been chosen by the supervisor, or the brother can choose himself, it depends). Then, the "supervisor" and the "speaker" (I'm sure there is a better translation ;D ) ask questions. Then, there is a vote of the members which have the degree whom the candidate hope to access
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Post by lauderdale on Aug 3, 2008 22:10:08 GMT
The three Craft Lodges to which I belong all work the Lauderdale Ritual. The Candidate for the Fellow-craft or Master Mason Degrees have to prove the Proficiency in their current degree , and present a paper in Lodge, what we call a "Piece of Architecture". They then submit an application for "An Increase in Wages", that is to receive the next Degree. Entered Apprentices are under the care and tuition of the Worshipful Junior Warden, Fellow-crafts under the Worshipful Senior Warden and Master Masons under the Right Worshipful Master.
One of our Lodges here in the UK, which I visit from time to time, has changed to working a Continental Ritual which is possibly closer to your workings in France?
Bro Cora has explained the two officers you have mentioned above.
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Post by jerohm on Aug 3, 2008 22:26:57 GMT
Do you mean the Grand Expert and the Orateur? If I refere to Lauderdale's last post, it is not the "supervisor" (surveillant) who ask questions but warden ;D ;D ;D (about degree knowledges) and the "Orateur", about law knowledges. The "Grand Expert" doesn't ask any questions, neither the other officers. My Lodge works the REAA (Rite Ecossais Ancien et Accepté) like the very big majority of the co-masonic loges in France... There are only 3 or 4 loges which work Brit Rituals. I hope I could visit one of them very soon !
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Post by corab on Aug 4, 2008 11:34:33 GMT
If I refere to Lauderdale's last post, it is not the "supervisor" (surveillant) who ask questions but warden ;D ;D ;D (about degree knowledges) and the "Orateur", about law knowledges. Ah, I see. In our lodges (using Lauderdale ritual, anyway), it is the VM who asks the questions, but the 1er Surveillant is responsible for the development of the apprentis, and the 2eme Surveillant for the companions. I have had the pleasure of attending a meeting of a lodge under GLFdF where 2 papers were presented, and I have to say I'm glad I was not subjected to such a grilling! ;D Awesome. We work the same Rite, but different rituels, although we do how have one lodge, as Bro:. Steve already said, that does work the French Ritual. Other rituels currently in use are Lauderdale, Verulam, Scottish and Irish, and we are also authorised to work Emulation. Let me know if you're ever in England and I'll arrange a lodge visit for you:-) TF, Cora
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Post by jerohm on Aug 4, 2008 12:04:31 GMT
In our lodges (using Lauderdale ritual, anyway), it is the VM who asks the questions, but the 1er Surveillant is responsible for the development of the apprentis, and the 2eme Surveillant for the companions. In France, the opposite it's true : 2nd for apprentices, 1st for companions (whatever the ritual, actually) GLFF or GLDF ? It seems that "sisters" are not welcomed at GLDF... Of course, since LDH has ONE Rite, as our International Constitution says. But everybody isn't agree with this. There's a lot of common points, but essential others are quite different. For instance, Master's apron is dark blue in Brit Rite, red in "REAA"... and an apron belong to a rite rather than a ritual, don't it ? Let's say that continuity on the Spiritual and Initiatory ladder, as we concieve It at Le Droit Humain, is governed by "REAA". If it wasn't, we wouldn't have a supreme counsil, and Le Droit Humain wouldn't be an international order. And finally, isn't the more important thing that Le Droit Humain "works to unite men and women who agree on a humanist spirituality whilst respecting individual and cultural differences" ? Beware ! It seems that NO lodge practice French Rite in our Order (I don't like very much this rite). There's a long time ago, Sister Gedalge wanted to introduce this rite in the order, but it has been refused. French Rite is a modern (I want to tell that it isn't ancient) rite, the same that a lot of lodges of GODF work. This ritual is very stripped, and I really have difficulties to mark the "cut" between the profane world and the sacred one when I visit lodges who work it. In our Order, French lodges work the third first degree of REAA (the 'E' is for Ecossais => Scottish), the Rite which is practice after the 3rd degree in a lot of Grand Lodges.[/quote] That would be great !
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Post by astraia on Aug 5, 2008 0:55:17 GMT
In my lodge (LDH, Greece) the responsibilities are as jerohm describes - JW (2eme surveillant) for EAs and SW (1er) for FCs. We take about a year for each degree up to MM, and then, well, I'm not too sure. I've seen Brn:. take a couple in a year, and others stay with the 3rd for a decade - it seems to depend who wants to go into administraiton and who doesn't. We meet weekly (which I'm told is unusual compared to the UK particularly) and Brn:. in lodges of perfection etc etc may meet twice and three times a week. Unless there's an initiation there's always a paper read, the MMs take turns as the year progresses. We too have the 'Piece of Architecture" as a requirement for progression from FC to MM (although for some odd reason it's translated as Tracing board - as are all lectures/papers, the real tracing boards are called carpets - I suppose in keeping with when they really could be rolled up as in the days of the Goose and Gridiron). Meanwhile, my lodge is the only one still using blue/white aprons, and sashes (collars?) all the other ones in the order now use red/white ones. Apparently ours belong to some older tradition (so I've been told) and the red ones are more recent. As far as I know, we work a smilar rite to that used in the LDH in Marseilles - jerohm would you happen to know anything about this? Curiouser and curiouser said Alice
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Post by jerohm on Aug 5, 2008 7:59:49 GMT
Grrrrr I have just written a very long post and I make a wrong thing with my computer : everything has disappeared in limbo ...but I'm a persevering mason : I again ! ;D Id est ? You know, my english isn't pretty good, and I find it very difficult to understand english abbreviations... Especially that english masonic abbreviations are not studied at school ;D You are great workers ! In France, we meet twice a month. And once more for EAs and FCs with their warden. Idem in my lodge But we work a lot : we (are supposed to) start à 7:15pm, and we often finish at 11:00pm !!! Don't you have it too for progression from EA to FC ? I have never worked brit rituals, but it seems they are historical newer than "REAA". Your ritual (Sydney Ritual, if I don't make a mistake) would have been written at the begining of the 20th century by Annie Besant, one of the greatest mason of our Order in my mind. To talk about "old tradition" is true for each ritual anytime You know, there is something like 500 lodges in France, and I don't know how do they all work It seems there is only 3 or 4 lodges in France which work brit rituals... Maybe there is one in Marseille ? I'm not sure... haven't a mason to be curious, haven't he (she) ? Quite frat Jerome
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Post by astraia on Aug 5, 2008 12:02:18 GMT
Bonjour fr:. Jerome!
First to say I am not in England, I am in Athens Greece, Hellenic Federation of LDH, so although I have no idea which rite we work (what it's called) it is probably not British.
Brn:. = Brethren = les freres, en plurel
No, we're not allowed to speak except to ask a question (or if directly addressed) until we present that piece for progression to MM. For progression to FC it is only the questions/answers from the 1st degree ritual.
Fraternellement, Astraia
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Post by jerohm on Aug 5, 2008 14:13:13 GMT
In our Order, there are Two "Rites" (or rather rituals) : REAA (red aprons) and "0English Rite" with different workings (blue aprons) like Sydney, Lauderdale, Verulam... I talk about "brit" rituals, because their are from England, that's all Reçois ma chaleureuse accolade fraternelle, Jérôme
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Post by corab on Aug 6, 2008 12:19:25 GMT
Well that's interesting -- I didn't know Lauderdale and Verulam were worked in France. Sidney is an interesting one -- insofar as I know it is a predecessor of Lauderdale, but its Mark-twin is still worked separately. In our Order, there are Two "Rites" (or rather rituals) : REAA (red aprons) and "0English Rite" with different workings (blue aprons) like Sydney, Lauderdale, Verulam... I talk about "brit" rituals, because their are from England, that's all Reçois ma chaleureuse accolade fraternelle, Jérôme
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Post by jerohm on Aug 7, 2008 7:16:02 GMT
Dear Bro Cora, I'm not sure that Laudedale or Verulam are worked in France : I only know that 3 or 4 lodges work brit rituals in France : in La Rochelle (I plan to visit them soon !), in Paris and in Boulogne sur Mer. Maybe in Marseille too, but I'm not sure. It seems in Paris our Bro work Lauderdale Ritual, in the other lodges, I don't know which working is worked...
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Post by corab on Aug 7, 2008 11:41:14 GMT
Dear Bro:. Jerome, Dear Bro Cora, I'm not sure that Laudedale or Verulam are worked in France : I only know that 3 or 4 lodges work brit rituals in France : in La Rochelle (I plan to visit them soon !), in Paris and in Boulogne sur Mer. Maybe in Marseille too, but I'm not sure. It seems in Paris our Bro work Lauderdale Ritual, in the other lodges, I don't know which working is worked... Wow, I am surprised at that. I thought the French Federation worked only what we know as the French Working and Emulation. We live and learn! ;D
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Post by seekeroftruth on May 23, 2009 18:16:16 GMT
In Germany, at least in the German speaking GLs, an EA and FC has to present a "Piece of Architecture" prior to being awarded the next degree. The theme of the presentation is chosen by the candidate and has to relate somewhat to the ritual of the degree that the candidate is currently in. No demand of a "wage increase" is made. The presentation is given during a normal club evening never in open lodge and then a debate begins. You are expected to defend your position/opinion. When the day comes for the degree advancement then after you are called from the Chamber of Reflection, the examination is either done outside the Temple or inside. The examination being the same as described in the other posts. When inside the Master of the Lodge asks the questions. When outside a Brother designated by the Master of the Lodge will test the candidate and then report back to the Master of the Lodge. Prior to entry (for the awarding of the FC and MM degrees), the candidate's sponsor is asked in open lodge whether he is satisfied with the candidate's work and that an increase in wage should be awarded. In Germany this link between a Master Mason (sponsor) and an Apprentice (EA, FC) plays an important part as it can be directly reflected to the operative masons and the idea of an apprenticeship. EAs and FCs are usually instructed by Brothers other than the JW and SW. In Germany the German speaking GLs have a variety of apron designs, depending on their history. The majority having rossettes and blue (dark or light) trimming. I have seen gold trimming as well. Concerning Rites, the British Grand Lodge uses Emulation, the Great Land Lodge uses the Zinendorff Ritual throughout Germany, the Grand Lodge of the 3 Globes also uses its own rite. The AFAM Grand lodge is a particular case. Prior to 1934, there existed around 13 different Grand Lodges within Germany. In 1934 the Nazis banned freemasonry. After WWII, in 1949, the surviving masons of these GLs that belonged to the Humanitarian Tradition, decided to unify under the aegis of one GL, the AFAM of Germany. This GL has codified its own ritual, based on the ritual of the Grand Lodge of Hamburg. All lodges that are founded have to use this ritual. However, at the date of unification, a clause in the constitution allowed lodges that had been founded prior to 1934 and had been reconstituted between 1945 and 1949 had the option to keep and work their original ritual. Today around 30 such lodges exist working their respective rituals. From what I have heard (unfortunately not verified first hand ) the Grand Lodge of German Women Freemasons uses the standard AFAM ritual. Hope this is of interest iduhZ
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Post by magusmasonica on May 27, 2009 22:33:25 GMT
I know in the USA LDH do work the French Modern Rite. There is one lodge in Los Angeles and one in New York for sure that work this rite. It is called the "Continental Rite" under the USA federation of LDH.
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe the French Modern Rite to be older than the REAA (AASR.)
Doesn't the French Modern Rite date back to 1723?
Love and Light,
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Post by seekeroftruth on Jun 1, 2009 18:59:45 GMT
According to the web site of the GLNF the "French Rite" was elaborated by the GOdF in 1780 and adopted in 1785. This would indicate that various rituals were in use by freemasons prior to this date existed. However, the rite that is known today dates from 1780. Link in French (http://www.glnf.asso.fr/page.asp?arb_n_id=153) It is said that the origins of this rite date from at least 1725 when British exiles (this falls within the time of the Jacobite Troubles in Scotland) who were masons went to France and brought with them the ritual of the Grand Lodge of London which was then in time translated into French and used in french lodges prior to the adoption of the rite as we know it in 1785. Link in French from the GLTSO (http://www.gltso.org/rft.htm) I can't pin-point an exact date for the 3 first degrees of the AASR. Maybe someone can shed some more light on this facet of the question
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Post by architekt on Jun 1, 2009 21:40:22 GMT
The Lauderdale Ritual - www.droithumain.org/uk/html/craft_rituals.html - Previous versions are known outside of the British Federation as the Dharma or Sydney Ritual and in this instance, the reference is to the 1992 working – there were several earlier editions.
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