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Post by astraia on Aug 29, 2008 12:39:41 GMT
Given that it's the idea of Atlantis that seems to matter more, and that speculation abounds anyway, does it really matter? Sure, it can't be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, but when you've got an archetypal idea that for whatever reason sparks imaginations and can act as a point of reference in this way, who's it harming? Atlantis might be an astral landscape, might be an antediluvian memory, might be a complete figment of the imagination... or it might have been true. Legends tend to have some seed of truth, however they are disguised - but is that really what's important? There are different kinds of knowing....
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Aug 29, 2008 12:59:30 GMT
Given that it's the idea of Atlantis that seems to matter more, and that speculation abounds anyway, does it really matter? Sure, it can't be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, but when you've got an archetypal idea that for whatever reason sparks imaginations and can act as a point of reference in this way, who's it harming? Atlantis might be an astral landscape, might be an antediluvian memory, might be a complete figment of the imagination... or it might have been true. Legends tend to have some seed of truth, however they are disguised - but is that really what's important? There are different kinds of knowing.... So, again: Anything goes!? One can just assert whatever, as fact, and still be meaningful!? The discussion thus far had referred to matters of history, archaeology, geography and geology.
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Post by astraia on Aug 29, 2008 17:46:18 GMT
Yup, and now I'm throwing in the relative importance of mythology too. We can't prove the history, archaeology, geography or geology, and I'm asking: does it matter? We can prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that it existed as legend in Plato's time, and whether it's a reflection of the destruction of the Minoan civilisation or a whisper of forgotten truth is irrelevant. What effect did it have on people's imaginations? Tommaso Campanella's City of the Sun (1602) ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/c/campanella/tommaso/c18c/ or Thomas More's Utopia (1516) are beautiful works of literature and the direct result of this kind of imagining. Some of us sense a certain style of architecure or aesthetics to go with it, some of us read more deeply into the stories, some may take the story as an allegorical moral warning. But the myth remains and, in the way of myths, has many interesting twists and turns that some of us may consider valuable. Tolkein's Middle Earth is purely fictional, and he went as far as to invent genealogies and whole languages to go with it - and look at the millions of people for whom it has opened up a realm of fantasy in which the imagination can play and grow. It may not be to everyone's taste but fantasy worlds have their own value, and myths and folktales usually exist for a reason.
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Aug 29, 2008 19:30:20 GMT
Only if one is concerned with the relative merits of propositions regarding matters of history, archaeology, geography & geology (& now mythology). If you are not concerned in this case, it does not matter to you. Atlantis has validity as a mythological construct. We can, if you like, discuss its mythological significance. However, when dealing in matters of, for instance, history or geology, let us bear those disciplines in mind.
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Post by maat on Sept 1, 2008 0:29:24 GMT
I had time over the weekend to read fully the link which suggests that a much larger Indonesia was Atlantis (and Eden?) of yore. The professor raises some very pertinent points to ponder. " Plato concedes that he learnt the legend of Atlantis from Solon who, in turn, got it from the Egyptians. But those, in their turn, learnt it from the Hindus of Punt (Indonesia). Punt was the Ancestral Land (To-wer), the Island of Fire whence the Egyptians originally came, in the dawn of times, expelled by the cataclysm that razed their land." Most of Indonesia, it seems, was drowned as an aftermath of the gigantic eruption of Mt Krakatoa. " The explosion caused a giant tsunami, which ravaged the lowland of Atlantis and Lemuria. It also triggered the end of the last Ice Age by covering the continental glaciers with a layer of soot (fly ash) which precipitated their melting by increasing the absorption of sunshine. The giant tsunami it caused also resulted in a maritime invasion of the continents surrounding the Pacific region and, above all, of the Antarctic region. The result was that the glaciers were floated by these invading waters and carried back to the ocean, when these waters returned to it. this process has recently been confirmed by geological and oceanographic research and is call Heinrich Events. These are associated with the cataclysm end of the Pleistocene Ice age, and are sudden and brutal." Maat PS It came to mind as I was typing this ... about our 'first parents' being expelled from the Garden (world) of Eden by the angel wielding a fiery sword - called Krakatoa? . PPS It also came to mind that Edgar Cayce once stated that Australia's major threat would come the the North West ... where lies Indonesia and Krakatoa. PPPS A major cause of global warming is the cyclic heating up of the oceans, and a natural and cyclic 'cure' for this global warming is the eruption of volcanoes it seems. All this is closely tied to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. Oh dear. Krakatoa lives and breathes.
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Post by maximus on Sept 1, 2008 1:53:10 GMT
I had time over the weekend to read fully the link which suggests that a much larger Indonesia was Atlantis (and Eden?) of yore. The professor raises some very pertinent points to ponder. " Plato concedes that he learnt the legend of Atlantis from Solon who, in turn, got it from the Egyptians. But those, in their turn, learnt it from the Hindus of Punt (Indonesia). Punt was the Ancestral Land (To-wer), the Island of Fire whence the Egyptians originally came, in the dawn of times, expelled by the cataclysm that razed their land." Most of Indonesia, it seems, was drowned as an aftermath of the gigantic eruption of Mt Krakatoa. " The explosion caused a giant tsunami, which ravaged the lowland of Atlantis and Lemuria. It also triggered the end of the last Ice Age by covering the continental glaciers with a layer of soot (fly ash) which precipitated their melting by increasing the absorption of sunshine. The giant tsunami it caused also resulted in a maritime invasion of the continents surrounding the Pacific region and, above all, of the Antarctic region. The result was that the glaciers were floated by these invading waters and carried back to the ocean, when these waters returned to it. this process has recently been confirmed by geological and oceanographic research and is call Heinrich Events. These are associated with the cataclysm end of the Pleistocene Ice age, and are sudden and brutal." Maat PS It came to mind as I was typing this ... about our 'first parents' being expelled from the Garden (world) of Eden by the angel wielding a fiery sword - called Krakatoa? . PPS It also came to mind that Edgar Cayce once stated that Australia's major threat would come the the North West ... where lies Indonesia and Krakatoa. PPPS A major cause of global warming is the cyclic heating up of the oceans, and a natural and cyclic 'cure' for this global warming is the eruption of volcanoes it seems. All this is closely tied to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. Oh dear. Krakatoa lives and breathes. Unfortunately for this theory, Krakatoa erupted in the 1800s.
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Post by maat on Sept 1, 2008 3:44:42 GMT
Krakatau Volcano Eruptions (and it is still active) 2007-08, 2001, 2000, 1999, 1997, 1996, 1994-95, 1992-93, 1988, 1981, 1980, 1979, 1978, 1975, 1972-73, 1969?, 1965?, 1959-63, 1958-59, 1955, 1953, 1952, 1950, 1949, 1946-47, 1946, 1945, 1944, 1943, 1942, 1941, 1938-40, 1937, 1936, 1935, 1932-34, 1931-32, 1927-30, 1883, 1680-81, 1550, 1350, 1150, 1050, 950, 850, 416, 250 ... and this does not mention the one in 535 AD ... so why not before 250? www.volcanolive.com/krakatau.htmlen.wikipedia.org/wiki/KrakatoaMaat
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Post by maximus on Sept 1, 2008 4:49:46 GMT
Even the one in 1883, the most violent eruption in recorded history, with an explosive force 13,000 times that of the atomic bomb that devastated Hiroshima, the shockwave travelling around the world seven times and the sound heard 3000 miles away, still did not have the force to sink a continent. I think that Tollmann's hypothetical bollide comes closer to an explanation of the universal deluge, albeit not without its own problems. Sometimes, a myth is just a myth.
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Post by maat on Sept 1, 2008 5:21:24 GMT
Even the one in 1883, the most violent eruption in recorded history, with an explosive force 13,000 times that of the atomic bomb that devastated Hiroshima, the shockwave travelling around the world seven times and the sound heard 3000 miles away, still did not have the force to sink a continent. You didn't read the link did you? ;D It makes the specific point of the continent not being sunk, but rather being drowned by the rising waters. As the bible story says of the great flood, it occurred by the water raining down from above and the water rising from below. It is the scenario (minus the eruption) that is alarming scientists with global warming right now. The lower parts of countries and continents will be drowned out, cease to be habitable places. This will also cause great instability socially, politically, etc and even cause wars, as the displaced try to find new homes and surviving countries try to maintain ample supplies of food and drinking water for even more people. Maat
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Post by hollandr on Sept 1, 2008 6:30:01 GMT
>and the water rising from below.
And this solves the problem of where the water in the oceans comes from - the oceans being a very recent feature of the planet
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Post by maat on Sept 1, 2008 7:01:12 GMT
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Sept 1, 2008 8:29:11 GMT
Sometimes, a myth is just a myth. Would that these words were chiseled in stone and embellished in gold.
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Post by maximus on Sept 1, 2008 16:22:09 GMT
It makes the specific point of the continent not being sunk, but rather being drowned by the rising waters. As the bible story says of the great flood, it occurred by the water raining down from above and the water rising from below. Besides the fact that the compilers of the myths that comprise the Bible had no clear idea of geology and other related sciences, a strike by an extraterrestrial body, likely having broken into several pieces (think comet Shoemaker-Levy 9) is a much more likely senario. Global Warming is a modern myth in itself, for which the evidence is almost non-existant.
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Post by maat on Sept 1, 2008 22:58:07 GMT
Sometimes, a myth is just a myth. Would that these words were chiseled in stone and embellished in gold.Tamrin, we are not deaf. Stupid maybe.. But not deaf. Don't shout, it is impolite. Maat
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Post by hollandr on Sept 1, 2008 23:44:05 GMT
I tend to think that "myth" is essentially the same word as "mouth"
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Post by maat on Sept 2, 2008 0:22:30 GMT
;D Re: we stupid people - I'd like to say a word on our behalf ... or rather Robert Collier would ... from his marvellous book The Secret of the AgesOur railroads, our telephones, our automobiles, our libraries, our newspapers, our thousands of other conveniences, comforts and necessities are due to the creative genius of but two per cent of our population.
And the same two per cent own a great percentage of the wealth of the country.
The question arises, Who are they? What are they? The sons of the rich? College men? No—few of them had any early advantages. Many of them have never seen the inside of a college. It was grim necessity that drove them, and somehow, some way, they found a method of drawing upon their Genie-of-the-Mind, and through that inner force they have reached success.www.sacred-texts.com/nth/tsoa/tsoa08.htm#page_101It has been my experience that if you poke a myth with a stick (or wand) you might be surprised at what and who you find. Maat
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Post by maximus on Sept 2, 2008 0:57:02 GMT
I tend to think that "myth" is essentially the same word as "mouth" The word myth is Greek in origin, from mythos: story, word. The word mouth is Middle English/Old English in origin, from muth, which was derived from Mund (German) and munnr (Old Norse) Other than myths being transmitted orally, I see no connection.
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Sept 2, 2008 9:01:11 GMT
Sometimes, a myth is just a myth. Would that these words were chiseled in stone and embellished in gold.Tamrin, we are not deaf. Stupid maybe.. But not deaf. Don't shout, it is impolite. Maat Would that these words were shouted from the rooftops!
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Post by billmcelligott on Sept 2, 2008 17:11:15 GMT
I think you have mythed the point.
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Sept 2, 2008 20:27:21 GMT
My mythake ;D
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