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Post by billmcelligott on Jul 6, 2009 20:20:00 GMT
Well, yes.
I can see the advantage from the smaller goups point of view. However for any arrangement to be fruitful it has to have advantage for both sides.
No one has given an argument for say UGLE to enter into relaxation of the visiting rules, that benefits UGLE. At least I have not been persuaded.
We have lots of conversations on the visitation rules, here and on other forum about Co Masons , Female and non mainstream Freemasonry. Most members talk openly and enjoy the interchange of ideas.
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Post by generatics on Jul 6, 2009 20:42:34 GMT
point taken. on a personal level, i see a lot of advantage to interacting with non-mainstream orders. in the US, i think many of our male Lodges could gain a lot from seeing how degree work is handled elsewhere.
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Post by billmcelligott on Jul 6, 2009 22:46:47 GMT
Yes, your right and there is a lot of interaction.
So it would depend on what you mean by
"brethren of non-mainstream Masonry to want to be accepted by the mainstream"
Now there are thousands like me who accept Co Masonry, Female and other non mainstream Freemasonry, but also support the recognition rules.
There are some who do not think that they should even be called Freemasons.
There are some who just don't care either way.
So you pays your money and you takes your choice.
Personally I enjoy the Masonry I am involved in and I wish it to remain as it is. I do not want to involve myself in any of the other Masonry, I can talk all day long with other Orders , but not in my Lodge. This conforms to the rules as laid down by my GL.
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Post by generatics on Jul 6, 2009 23:45:52 GMT
can totally appreciate that.
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Post by magusmasonica on Jul 7, 2009 3:09:19 GMT
I know for me the sure fire way to get me to seek something is to tell me I "can't" do it. There has always been that appeal to find out just what is behind the ccurtain.
There are many members of "mainstream" malecraft Masonry who seek out and attend tyled "Co Masonic" lodge meetings.
This is nothing new, it has been going on for a long time and it will continue. It would be nice if these men could come out of the closet.
As time goes by more and more will realize that there is a lot of light out there to be found. As they do more will seek. Adaptation is the law of survival.
Love and Light,
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vtmason
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Post by vtmason on Jul 7, 2009 18:17:14 GMT
can totally appreciate that. I appreciate it as well, Brother. Be careful with it though. Our friend Magus has just said that mainstream Masons actively seek out co-Masonic lodges. This is a bit of a stretch. Stay true to your obligation |
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Post by magusmasonica on Jul 7, 2009 18:31:43 GMT
can totally appreciate that. I appreciate it as well, Brother. Be careful with it though. Our friend Magus/joyrock has just said that mainstream Masons actively seek out co-Masonic lodges. This is a bit of a stretch. Stay true to your obligation One is firt obligated to themself are they not? Light is where it is to be sought. If someone determines for themself that the light they need to seek is to be found against (heaven forbid) Co-Masons than in order to uphold their obligation than they must enter into that chamber. "Uphold your obligation" is batted around as a dogma to restrict an individuals journey to light. Those of us who actually paid attention to the obligation know this propoganda not to be the truth. Love and Light, |
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Post by generatics on Jul 7, 2009 20:53:53 GMT
my personal way is to never break any obligation i make. if i should choose to do anything that is against my Obligation, i would first demit myself from the male Lodge before doing so. i understand that many attend both. that's fine for them, but it's just not for me.
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vtmason
Member
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Posts: 251
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Post by vtmason on Jul 8, 2009 0:47:43 GMT
I appreciate it as well, Brother. Be careful with it though. Our friend Magus/joyrock has just said that mainstream Masons actively seek out co-Masonic lodges. This is a bit of a stretch. Stay true to your obligation One is firt obligated to themself are they not? Light is where it is to be sought. If someone determines for themself that the light they need to seek is to be found against (heaven forbid) Co-Masons than in order to uphold their obligation than they must enter into that chamber. "Uphold your obligation" is batted around as a dogma to restrict an individuals journey to light. Those of us who actually paid attention to the obligation know this propoganda not to be the truth. Love and Light, Up holding one's obligation is a matter of honor. It is another one of those things that you must experience to appreciate. Upholding one's obligation is not necessarily restricting, but meant to set boundaries and structure which we can grow |
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Post by middlepillar on Jul 8, 2009 19:39:32 GMT
I do not think one is first obligate to thyself, I believe 'To thyself be true'. Obligations should not be entered into with haste nor misunderstanding. There has been several occasions when I have felt my Obligation to my Grand Lodge was not neccessary the correct approach, however I worked at it and came to terms with what I had disagreed with in an acceptable way to myself without breaking any obligation.
I have always been interested in visiting a Co-Masonic Lodge, this is no secret, however I have not done so, the best thing I did manage was to visit Cora's Lodges Open day to celebrate The festival of St John. This was held in thier Temple and after the Lodge ws closed they invited all the non-masons in to celebrate a non-masonic ceremony, this was quite beautiful and I believe our Bro Lauderdale made his decision to leave UGLE after this meeting (Perhaps the final piece in his jigsaw) there was a few UGLE Freemasons waiting outside for the Lodge busines to finish and it was interesting to talk to each one over thier particular reason for being there. To my surprise, 2 mainstream masons both of whom I know came out after the Lodge was closed!
We must all answer for our actions! To my own self be true
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Post by magusmasonica on Jul 8, 2009 19:44:05 GMT
I do not think one is first obligate to thyself, I believe 'To thyself be true'. Obligations should not be entered into with haste nor misunderstanding. There has been several occasions when I have felt my Obligation to my Grand Lodge was not neccessary the correct approach, however I worked at it and came to terms with what I had disagreed with in an acceptable way to myself without breaking any obligation. I have always been interested in visiting a Co-Masonic Lodge, this is no secret, however I have not done so, the best thing I did manage was to visit Cora's Lodges Open day to celebrate The festival of St John. This was held in thier Temple and after the Lodge ws closed they invited all the non-masons in to celebrate a non-masonic ceremony, this was quite beautiful and I believe our Bro Lauderdale made his decision to leave UGLE after this meeting (Perhaps the final piece in his jigsaw) there was a few UGLE Freemasons waiting outside for the Lodge busines to finish and it was interesting to talk to each one over thier particular reason for being there. To my surprise, 2 mainstream masons both of whom I know came out after the Lodge was closed! We must all answer for our actions! To my own self be true Bro.Middlepillar, In the USA it is stated before the obligation is taken to the candidate that this obligation does not come before the obligation the candidate owes to his God, country, neighbor or himself. That is pretty cut and dry don't you think? Love and Light, |
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vtmason
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Post by vtmason on Jul 8, 2009 20:00:52 GMT
I do not think one is first obligate to thyself, I believe 'To thyself be true'. Obligations should not be entered into with haste nor misunderstanding. There has been several occasions when I have felt my Obligation to my Grand Lodge was not neccessary the correct approach, however I worked at it and came to terms with what I had disagreed with in an acceptable way to myself without breaking any obligation. I have always been interested in visiting a Co-Masonic Lodge, this is no secret, however I have not done so, the best thing I did manage was to visit Cora's Lodges Open day to celebrate The festival of St John. This was held in thier Temple and after the Lodge ws closed they invited all the non-masons in to celebrate a non-masonic ceremony, this was quite beautiful and I believe our Bro Lauderdale made his decision to leave UGLE after this meeting (Perhaps the final piece in his jigsaw) there was a few UGLE Freemasons waiting outside for the Lodge busines to finish and it was interesting to talk to each one over thier particular reason for being there. To my surprise, 2 mainstream masons both of whom I know came out after the Lodge was closed! We must all answer for our actions! To my own self be true Some of the best Masons I've met on Masonic forums were lady Masons. I had the opportunity to travel last fall and was able to go to a lodge hall and was given a tour. I was enlightened to say the least. I was given a great look as to the universality of Masonry. A great read on this is Karen's book. I was able to piece some things that I saw with her words. Pretty cool. I'm like you, Brother. I've always been able to work with my obligation to continue gaining knowledge and light. |
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Post by whistler on Jul 22, 2009 9:17:17 GMT
my personal way is to never break any obligation i make. if i should choose to do anything that is against my Obligation, i would first demit myself from the male Lodge before doing so. i understand that many attend both. that's fine for them, but it's just not for me. Once again an annual - Should every Freemason who is divorced consider themselves a demitted person? |
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Post by generatics on Jul 22, 2009 16:17:46 GMT
Once again an annual - Should every Freemason who is divorced consider themselves a demitted person? Of course not. I doubt you honestly see a connection between those two things, right? And in case it needs reiterating; I would never judge anyone who has chosen to break their Obligation. I honestly couldn't care less. All I said was that it's not for me. I still may demit myself from the male Lodge and join Co-Masonry some day, in that order. To each their own. Cheers. |
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