afterthought
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A true initiation never ends. -Robert Anton Wilson
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Post by afterthought on Mar 16, 2009 18:52:51 GMT
I find it very interesting (in a perverse sort of way) that most believers in God that I have had any interaction with believe that they will get to actually meet God after death. Many believe in God's personal judgement of them or in the case of many Gnostics and other types becoming one with God or next to God.
Now, if there is a God one would imagine a very powerful and large being. Beyond the scope of what would be our subatomic level of existence next to his. What makes us so full of ourselves to believe that a being of such size and power would take any notice at the passing of our mortal lives?
What makes us think that we would ever get face time with the Creator?
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Post by maat on Mar 16, 2009 22:24:50 GMT
Just a wild guess: The same arrogance that drives people into believing that they do not see G-d's face in the faces of people passing by, in the mirror when they view themselves or upon the earth every where they look. Hi Prom I wouldn't call it arrogance. Until you find God in yourself you are unable or unlikely to see Him in others. Bit like love. I, personally, think our basic instincts about God are 'hard wired'. We just come into Being with it there, at the Centre of our Being. I AM that i am. I AM in my Father and my Father is IN ME. If one reads about the electrical nature of the Universe and learns about plasma, one might come to an understanding of what our bodies truly are and how they operate and how they can be individual and part of the whole at the same time. As all Wisdom Traditions keep telling us. I actually think we GROW into God over continual lives on earth (and elsewhere?) experiences. Maat Met 'God' once in a dream. God was a dazzling white sun like ball in a black sky Was the point of light within or without or all about but reduced so I could understand?
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Post by maat on Mar 16, 2009 22:27:47 GMT
What makes us so full of ourselves to believe that a being of such size and power would take any notice at the passing of our mortal lives? What makes us think that we would ever get face time with the Creator? Natural attraction - Love.
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afterthought
Member
A true initiation never ends. -Robert Anton Wilson
Posts: 242
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Post by afterthought on Mar 17, 2009 0:03:33 GMT
I find these type of inteactions of great anthropological interest. When we take into account the size and scope of just our galaxy it must become clear that the death of one human whould be of less impact to the creator than a single dead skin cell is to ourselves.
Scale is something that is not often brought into the equation.
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Post by maat on Mar 17, 2009 1:52:02 GMT
I find these type of inteactions of great anthropological interest. When we take into account the size and scope of just our galaxy it must become clear that the death of one human would be of less impact to the creator than a single dead skin cell is to ourselves. Scale is something that is not often brought into the equation. Scale - As above so below? The universe and the atom? So you don't think much of your dead skin cells huh? Just wondering how anthropologists get their head around the Placebo Affect? Other regular scientific experiments have acknowledged that mind can affect matter and at great distances. The US Army ran a program in distant viewing and police are known to use psychics who find that even time is not a barrier. Maat
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Post by paulh on Mar 17, 2009 3:24:18 GMT
This area of inquiry might be considered in the traditional context of transcendence and immanence of divinity.
Transcendence turns out to be a bit hard to tie down from the perspective of the metaphysicist. For example it is clear that TGAOTU stands outside this and other universes, but does TGAOTU actually transcend all Creation? While TGAOTU marks the limit of my sight, I do not rule out further progress.
And Immanence is not necessarily a uniform state - else there would not be sacred sites on the planet. What then are the mechanisms (and intelligences) that allow immanence to occur?
This now leads to some ambiguity in use of the term Creator. For example, is the creator of the human form the same as the creator of the human soul? What then of the apparently uncreated spirit that intends to express humanly?
There are therefore various levels of divine creator that may pay direct attention to individual entities such as humans - and some of the recipients learn to sense the attention.
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Post by maximus on Mar 17, 2009 6:09:24 GMT
The US Army ran a program in distant viewing... Remote viewing.
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 17, 2009 8:03:23 GMT
I find these type of inteactions of great anthropological interest. When we take into account the size and scope of just our galaxy it must become clear that the death of one human whould be of less impact to the creator than a single dead skin cell is to ourselves. Scale is something that is not often brought into the equation. Then what use is God, the entire concept of Religion and the human responsibilities tied into it says that it is the most important of all. If we believe that God does not care then we will cease to care then we will cease to be. I understand that in some parts of the world human life is not or seems not be important. The question is, does the world want that everywhere.
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afterthought
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A true initiation never ends. -Robert Anton Wilson
Posts: 242
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Post by afterthought on Mar 17, 2009 15:55:40 GMT
I find these type of inteactions of great anthropological interest. When we take into account the size and scope of just our galaxy it must become clear that the death of one human whould be of less impact to the creator than a single dead skin cell is to ourselves. Scale is something that is not often brought into the equation. Then what use is God, the entire concept of Religion and the human responsibilities tied into it says that it is the most important of all. If we believe that God does not care then we will cease to care then we will cease to be. I understand that in some parts of the world human life is not or seems not be important. The question is, does the world want that everywhere. This is an interesting question. Is God as unimportant to our everyday lives than we are to God's? I don't get your point (perhaps I am not undertsanding your intent) that without religion than human life has no value. I would argue that the reverse would be the case. With only one life, this life what could then be more important? I find the concept of God to be a curious one. I understand the need for such an idea when we where young as a species and we did not understand where anything came from or how anything worked. We have since grown to understand why a lot of things happened and where a lot of things came from. But, there is the curious human side effect of accepting bad theory as opposed to no theory, especially where God and life after death is concearned.
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 17, 2009 17:05:22 GMT
I shall expand then:
If we believe in a God who does not care if we live or die. That would be like having a Father who really does not care if you live or die.
If my Dad did not demonstrate again and again that he loved me, then I would not be enthused to show my son again and again that I love him.
We are the sum total of how we are raised, each child is a blank piece of paper and he or she will evolve depending on what they are taught and how they see their elders behave.
If we are taught to believe in a God who just does not care , then we will not care. If it OK for God [Dad] then its OK for me. It seems very simple to me. but then I am very simple.
If you do not believe in God, I am sorry but the same scenario applies. You will become what your beliefs lead you to be.
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afterthought
Member
A true initiation never ends. -Robert Anton Wilson
Posts: 242
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Post by afterthought on Mar 17, 2009 18:45:14 GMT
Belief is a strong place to be. I am in the data collection and review process. My work has yet to finish so my final findings are not ready at this time.
I find the comparision of God to a human father interesting. I suppose one's view of their human father who they have never had any direct contact with or even seen a picture of would be vastly different than a father who was in the home.
Let's say you where the father of trillions of children. Some of these are totally different forms and beings than others. To be the father of a star, a galaxy, a universe whould have to apply to a different scope than being the father of an cell or a virus.
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afterthought
Member
A true initiation never ends. -Robert Anton Wilson
Posts: 242
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Post by afterthought on Mar 17, 2009 18:56:43 GMT
...This is an interesting question. Is God as unimportant to our everyday lives than we are to God's? ... The question is not as interesting as one that assumes seperation from G-d is actually possible and is a lived reality. Interest is an individual process.
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 17, 2009 20:40:20 GMT
When we are 3 or 4 or 5 and so on, we know very little of God, but Father [Dad] is our God. He has the supreme responsibility of showing us what is right and what is wrong.
I have long been of the opinion that if a child has not been given the correct moral outlook by the age of 6 to 7 it is then too late.
When I was growing up I was lucky to have a great Father and Mother, now I am getting to be what I call an old man, I hope I have been at least part way to being as good Dad as my Dad was.
One thing my old Dad always quoted at me was 'every man is a father to every child' and in those days he was right. I am not so sure of this today though.
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afterthought
Member
A true initiation never ends. -Robert Anton Wilson
Posts: 242
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Post by afterthought on Mar 18, 2009 0:10:52 GMT
Interest is an individual process. Ya had my interest till now... Ok, I am sure there are other members and conversations that can fulfill your desire.
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afterthought
Member
A true initiation never ends. -Robert Anton Wilson
Posts: 242
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Post by afterthought on Mar 18, 2009 6:28:58 GMT
I do a ton of work electronicly. I have to communicate with people from all over the world. At any given time there may be 50 lines of communications open. It is all a ton of data to process and keep track of.
The only way to get my work done and retain my mind is to have relentless organization. My email for an example is on autopilot to place all incoming mail in designated areas.
Perhaps, just in our galaxy millions of beings pass on from this life every day. I can't help but think that with just that data incoming the Creator probably has a system. I would like to think of my "soul" as junk mail, but it is a possibility.
The universe is growing and expanding. Stars, planets and galaxies are born, live and die. We know these things. Given that work that the Creator is consistantly putting in I am doubting that one human passing through would make an impact.
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Post by maat on Mar 19, 2009 0:35:25 GMT
Heard tell that the Universe is not expanding - that in fact it is a lot smaller than we think. Kind of like a hall of mirrors. (Book by someone called Russell on the nature of light. Thought provoking except my mind nearly self destroyed trying to take it all in.)
Maat
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Post by maat on Mar 19, 2009 3:20:56 GMT
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Post by paulh on Mar 19, 2009 4:03:31 GMT
I recall a theological argument about how many angels could fit on the head of a pin. It seems to me that those making the proposition had never seen an angel.
In practice a wide variety of angels can be found at most scales of existence - larger even than galaxies.
What then of that cluster of concepts assembled under the title "God"?
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