Judaism and Islam?

[paulh]

May 1, 2009 22:21:36 GMT billmcelligott said:

and I will be their God.

An interesting statement if there is only one God

[maat]

Politics ;D ... and you WILL vote for me.... and you WILL etc etc.... and you WILL NOT .... etc etc etc.

[maat]

... er ... sounds a bit like notso free masonry as well ....

[righteousholyknigh]

Islam, Judaism and Christianity stem from the same Abrahamic traditions. My own view is that "Allah" is the Arabic word for God as Syrian Christians and others call God Allah. In that sense we do share the same God. However I doubt that the Big Three can ever be reconciled.

[maximus]

From Wikipedia:

Pre-Islamic Arabia

In pre-Islamic Arabia, Allah was used by Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity.[12]

Allah was not considered the sole divinity, however Allah was considered the creator of the world and the giver of rain. The notion of the term may have been vague in the Meccan religion.[4] Allah was associated with companions, whom pre-Islamic Arabs considered as subordinate deities. Meccans held that a kind of kinship existed between Allah and the jinn.[13] Allah was thought to have had sons[14] and that the local deities of al-ʻUzzá, Manāt and al-Lāt were His daughters.[15] The Meccans possibly associated angels with Allah.[16][17] Allah was invoked in times of distress.[17][18] Muhammad's father's name was ‘Abdallāh meaning the “servant of Allāh.” or "the slave of Allāh"[17]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah

[maximus]

Here is another view:

Allah - the Moon God

(excerpt, linked above)

The Archeology of The Middle East

The religion of Islam has as its focus of worship a deity by the name of "Allah." The Muslims claim that Allah in pre-Islamic times was the biblical God of the Patriarchs, prophets, and apostles. The issue is thus one of continuity. Was "Allah" the biblical God or a pagan god in Arabia during pre- Islamic times? The Muslim's claim of continuity is essential to their attempt to convert Jews and Christians for if "Allah" is part of the flow of divine revelation in Scripture, then it is the next step in biblical religion. Thus we should all become Muslims. But, on the other hand, if Allah was a pre- Islamic pagan deity, then its core claim is refuted. Religious claims often fall before the results of hard sciences such as archeology. We can endlessly speculate about the past or go and dig it up and see what the evidence reveals. This is the only way to find out the truth concerning the origins of Allah. As we shall see, the hard evidence demonstrates that the god Allah was a pagan deity. In fact, he was the Moon-god who was married to the sun goddess and the stars were his daughters.

[billmcelligott]

God said , tell them I am that I am, tell them 'I am' sent you.

So we can make a case for the name of God being 'I am'.

But that is not what is said in the Bible, In like manner Allah is god, that is what it says in the Koran. islam is based upon the Koran. you can play semantics with the name, but it still does nothing to change what the name of God is.

It is what is in a man's heart that matters, not what was used many years before his Religion was created / founded.

Freemasonry teaches us to accept other people Faith, it is not our position as individuals or Freemasonry's position to question the doctrine of anyone's Faith.

[maximus]

May 5, 2009 21:31:51 GMT billmcelligott said:

Freemasonry teaches us to accept other people Faith, it is not our position as individuals or Freemasonry's position to question the doctrine of anyone's Faith.

Freemasonry also teaches us to examine the hidden mysteries of nature and science. I would include religious history and mythology as well. Likewise, nothing wrong with examining the origins of things, or differing doctorines and ideas. Pike's Morals and Dogma is full of such examinations. Forbidding or discouraging such examination flies in the face of freedom of inquiry.

[billmcelligott]

Well Max you cant have both sides of the argument.

To examine has to be tempered, in my opinion with respect. if you loose one you loose the other.

No man truly obeys the Masonic law who merely tolerates those whose religious opinions are opposed to his own. Every man’s opinions are his own private property, and the rights of all men to maintain each his own are perfectly equal. Merely to tolerate, to bear with an opposing opinion, is to assume it to be heretical; and assert the right to persecute, if we would; and claim our toleration of it as a merit. The Mason’s creed goes farther than that. No man, it holds, has any right in any way to interfere with the religious belief of another. It holds that each man is absolutely sovereign as to his own belief, and that belief is a matter absolutely foreign to all who do not entertain the same belief; and that, if there were any right of persecution at all, it would in all cases be a mutual right; because one party has the same right as the other to sit as judge in his own case; and God is the only magistrate that can rightfully decide between them.
Albert Pike - Morals and Dogma

[maximus]

What Bro. Pike is telling us is that there is more to these things than what the surface appearance would indicate. Examining all sides would give one a clearer picture,I think, than blind acceptance.

[billmcelligott]

Pike is a wonderful writer and more so becuse he had little or no formal education, he was a little flamboyant and often contradicts himself, but I dont think you could write as much as he did without some of those contradictions.

Max sees things in this piece that I do not see.

What I see is , yes it is OK to talk and examine, but as a Freemason you can only do that from an objective point of view, for if you examine Islam shall we say from a Christian standpoint you start from a position where the Muslim is already misguided and should be aware the true Religion is Christianity. and the same the other way round.

This is of course why discussion of Politics and Religion has always been banned within Masonic meetings, they both have been shown to be divisive subjects over many years.

This is where you ask a question of 1,000 Masons and you will probably get 1,000 different answers.

[maximus]

Proper application of the seven Liberal Arts and Sciences should give us the tools to examine these questions in an objective manner - separating the wheat from the chaff. Even a biased source may contain valuable information.

[maximus]

May 7, 2009 11:41:59 GMT @prometheus said:

Just one or two questions: Are modern day Masons properly or suitably prepared to do this? or are they left to fend for themselves once these 7 are pointed out?

Under our current system, they are left to fend for themselves, unfortunately. This creates problems, and certain individuals may abandon traditional Freemasonry as not answering their questions, without fully understanding the tools they have been given.

[penfold]

Under our current system? I disagree - it was ALWAYS incumbent on the EA/FC to examine the liberal arts & sciences for themselves
Freemasonry isn't a kindergarten where sheeple are spoonfed, it is a place of safety for those with inquiring minds
Well, tis what I believe any road up!

[maat]

I guess if you've travelled up or down a useful path or two, it wouldn't be such a bad thing to pass this info onto other Brn in your lodge, at the festive board even. Whether they follow the same track would be up to them.

I view this forum as a travel information centre. One of the best I have come across. Friendly staff. Plenty of distinations to choose from... something for everyone's taste.

[maat]

Judaism, Islam (Freemasonry!) Gods - and hey what about us Goddesses?

What do we all have in common?

Cubes
Cornerstones
Widows
Double-headed axes
Doves
Etc

Check out the black stone of Mecca

The earliest reference we have to a goddess worshipped as a cube-shaped stone is from neolithic Anatolia. Alternatively, 'Kubaba' may mean a hollow vessel or cave - which would still be a supreme image of the goddess. The ideograms for Kubaba in the Hittite alphabet are a lozenge or cube, a double-headed axe, a dove, a vase and a door or gate - all images of the goddess in neolithic Europe.

www.crystalinks.com/blackstone.html

Maat

ALL is ONE ?

[ruffashlar]

But the word cube comes from Latin cubiculum, a bedroom ("a little place of sleep"*), from cubeo, -ere, to sleep.

_{*Or, a place of little sleep, if you're lucky}

[freemanati]

May 1, 2009 0:34:47 GMT freefalcon said:

I posted this question in a religious forum and would also like to post it here because I would like to get some other opinions.

The question is this: I have been told by many people that Jewish people and Muslim people believe in the same God. However, just as many people have told me otherwise. I have recently read that Allah is really a moon god and not the same god that is worshiped by Jewish people. Is this why so many of the flags of Middle Eastern Muslim nations display the crescent moon?

Can anyone provide some clarity on this subject?

The conception of God may be different but all pray to the divine creator ...... the crescent on flags of some muslim nations is a symbol of Islam and not symbolic depiction of their God.

"Allah" is the arabic word for God at the very least ....... christains in the middle east refer to God as Allah as well.