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Post by righteousholyknigh on May 6, 2009 15:16:23 GMT
Did anyone ever dig under Rosslyn Chapel to see if there where any scrolls?
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Post by leonardo on May 6, 2009 21:46:21 GMT
I remember watching a TV documentary on something like this but if I recall correctly nothing conclusive was found.
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Post by righteousholyknigh on May 7, 2009 12:31:22 GMT
Justr curious because at the end of "The Second Messia" by Knight and Lomass they seem to suggest that underneath Rosslyn where the ancient Qummran scrolls that belonged (in their view) to the Jerusalem Church.
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Post by leonardo on May 7, 2009 14:11:57 GMT
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Post by mrmason on May 9, 2009 10:04:01 GMT
If you get hold of the book titled "An Account of Rosslyn Chapel 1778" you will see that it is a 2000 re-print of the 1778 version, which is a re-print of the 1774 version. In this book is says that the chapel was excavated approx 60 years previous in which only the remians of the St Clairs were located, with one in full armour. Henry Lincoln also managed to excavate under it in the 80's and again nothing was found.
This goes to show that some researchers don't do their homework. I'm aware that there will probably be no more digging due to the revenue that is collected from the "belief" of hidden treasures. Plus there are too many organisations involved in the running of the chapel and would have to have an input.
Rosslyn is a wonderful place but certain links to it should be taken with a pinch of salt.
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Post by billmcelligott on May 9, 2009 10:09:03 GMT
When I was there a couple of years back, they were under way with an extensive restoration of the Chapel. I can not imagine that anyone in their right mind would attempt any further digs, it would put the structure itself at risk. You could visit the Rosslyn web site www.rosslynchapel.org.uk/
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cwhite
Member
Too much attention to subtleties makes you oblivious to the obvious.
Posts: 55
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Post by cwhite on Jul 29, 2011 23:32:45 GMT
The secrets are in the pillars....
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Post by AndyF on Jul 30, 2011 0:43:12 GMT
The secrets are in the pillars.... QUICK!! SMASH THEM OPEN!! THERE ARE SECRETS INSIDE THEM!!! ;D
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cwhite
Member
Too much attention to subtleties makes you oblivious to the obvious.
Posts: 55
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Post by cwhite on Jul 30, 2011 1:16:27 GMT
Got secrets in my head too....
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Post by babalon on Aug 20, 2011 3:39:03 GMT
In the course of my researches on Rosslyn, I found out that it was a group of FREEMASONS who undertook the "preservation" of Rosslyn in the mid-1800s. This fact, curiously, was not mentioned by Freemasons Knight and Lomas in their book "The Hiram Key".
I have no trouble believing that they (the Freemasons) converted it to a "Temple of the Mysteries" for a time, and that high-level rituals of the nature described in "The da Vinci Code' were performed there. Undoubtedly the crypt or chapel "down under" has seen its fair share of initiatory ritual; it was remarked at one point that the steps down to it were "deeply worn".
It was made known to me through inner knowledge that Rosslyn was consecrated as a Temple of the Black Virgin; I later discovered through research that there were many 'cults' extant at this time (mid 1800s); the world was in the grip of a "spiritual revolution" in fact, it was the time of the official 'changeover' into the Age of Aquarius.
This took place in or around 1888, when, it was said, the Lord of the Aeon would 'take charge".
This was the Archangel Michael. And indeed , if you check occult references to see who the Ruler of the third Decan of Aquarius is, you will see his name is "Michael".
I say "the third Decan", because as anyone versed in astrology knows, the Precession of the Equinoxes proceeds in reverse; thus, after the Age of Pisces comes the Age of Aquarius, and the Aeon begins at the last degree of of the last Decan of Aquarius.
Also, Aquarius is a Saturn-ruled Sign, and thus the Black Virgin, being "Binah" on the Tree of Life, and the Universal Mother is the appropriate "Deity" of this Aeon, thus it would be right and proper for such invocations to be conducted...
Another name for the Black Virgin is "Nuit".
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Post by billmcelligott on Aug 20, 2011 5:57:02 GMT
babylon You have to get away from fictional books like "The Hiram Key" and "The da Vinci Code' , if indeed it is serious research. Ask anyone who has been to Rosslyn and you willbe given the answer 'there is no crypt below Rosslyn. It only appears inthe film"The da Vinci Code' . en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Da_Vinci_CodeThe Da Vinci Code is a 2003 mystery-detective novel written by Dan Brown. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hiram_KeyThe Hiram Key is challended by most all the Masonic Historians. It is a theory with only few provable facts and much opinion. However there are mant books of this nature.
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Post by babalon on Aug 22, 2011 0:52:04 GMT
babylon You have to get away from fictional books like "The Hiram Key" and "The da Vinci Code' , if indeed it is serious research. Actually, I found "The Hiram Key" most credible, perhaps even MORE credible that any other book of its genre; all the information it presented that I was able to crosscheck was in fact FACTUAL. "The Da Vinci Code" was a NOVEL and was BASED on the information given in "The Hiram Key' but was not necessarily factual; in fact some of "TDVC" was distinctly ABSURD.
But the part about some 'secret Order" being associated with Rosslyn was quite credible; as I have said, there was a group of Freemasons which set out to restore Rosslyn in the mid-1800s (Knight and Lomas mention these attempts at restoration in their book, but NOT the fact that they were carried out by FREEMASONS.) It is entirely possible that this group formed a secret "Templar Order" of their own, and THIS is what is being alluded to with respect to Rosslyn Chapel and the existence of a "secret Templar cult".
I have also communicated with a person who claimed to have the 'custodian' of Rosslyn as his mentor, and he of course completely disclaimed all the popular rumours surrounding Rosslyn. But that STILL does not mean that there ISN'T a secret Order connected with Rosslyn in existence: in fact, I could not shake the impression that the way they "disclaimed" any such possibility, suggested that they might well have been 'deflecting suspicion"! rather than actually speaking the truth! I mean, what else would a "tyler" (custodian of the Temple) be expected to do?
>shrugs< But there would be no real way to determine whether this was the case, other than by "staking out" and observing the activity surrounding Rosslyn on Templar "High Holidays" (which, you can bet I would be doing if I lived nearby! ;D) Ask anyone who has been to Rosslyn and you willbe given the answer 'there is no crypt below Rosslyn. It only appears inthe film"The da Vinci Code' . There is in fact a crypt or something of the sort, and the stairway to it goes down one side, behind where the inscription is, if I recall correctly. The crypt or whatever it is called, is not in fact underground; it extends below and out to the back of the main building. That is what i am referring to.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Da_Vinci_CodeThe Da Vinci Code is a 2003 mystery-detective novel written by Dan Brown. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hiram_KeyThe Hiram Key is challended by most all the Masonic Historians. It is a theory with only few provable facts and much opinion. However there are mant books of this nature. True enough; but very few of them I have found as credible as "The Hiram Key"!
The Egyptian mummies (the wounded one and the "buried alive"one) are a fact; the numerous Gospel references are a fact; the science surrounding the image on the Shroud of Turin is a fact (in fact I consider the explanation given by K&L to be by far the most CREDIBLE theory I have come across thus far as to the origin of the image on the Shroud of Turin!)
So, pardon me if I choose to consider "The Hiram Key" equally as credible (and in many cases, MUCH MORE credible) as theories I have read about the origins of Christianity and which are taken VERY seriously by scholars! It is an observable fact to anyone who has had anything to do with them, that many historians and scholars are "blinded by prejudice" or they 'have an agenda", and Masonic scholars are NO exception to this rule! I mean, if you took the popular history of Freemasonry seriously, you would then be believing that Freemasonry just "popped out of the ground" in 1770! (or whenever it was!)
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Post by billmcelligott on Aug 22, 2011 7:52:53 GMT
babylon, you are of course welcome to whatever opinion you create. I just point out that there are many books about Rosslyn, you have chosen two to reflect that opinion that are linked and are not factual.
1 * The Da Vinci Code is a 2003 mystery-detective novel written by Dan Brown
2* 'This is an enthralling story, full of ingenious connections. Academic orthodoxies should always be challenged, and I would recommend this book to anyone who wants to believe that there are more threads to history than we yet know.'
- Prof. Philip R. Davies, Biblical Studies, University of Sheffield
With regard tothe crypt - you said
In the film there is an annex in the church and they go under the church thru a trap door. I have been in that room and there is no trap door or any other door.
Rosslyn has recently been restored nothing to do with Masons.
It is not for me to unprove these misguided conclusions it is for you to prove them. Using facts not speculation.
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Post by babalon on Aug 22, 2011 20:54:43 GMT
babylon, you are of course welcome to whatever opinion you create. I just point out that there are many books about Rosslyn, you have chosen two to reflect that opinion that are linked and are not factual. 1 * The Da Vinci Code is a 2003 mystery-detective novel written by Dan Brown 2* 'This is an enthralling story, full of ingenious connections. Academic orthodoxies should always be challenged, and I would recommend this book to anyone who wants to believe that there are more threads to history than we yet know.' - Prof. Philip R. Davies, Biblical Studies, University of Sheffield "TDVC" was BASED on The Hiram Key" One is a NOVEL and one is a book that is based on FACTS (for the most part)With regard tothe crypt - you said In the film there is an annex in the church and they go under the church thru a trap door. I have been in that room and there is no trap door or any other door. I never said there was at ANY time. i said "it is reached by a STAIRCASE that runs down to the back of Rosslyn. And , if there was "no door", how did you get into it, hmmm? Did they lower you in by a ROPE, maybe?Rosslyn has recently been restored nothing to do with Masons. Rosslyn was 'restored' in the MID-1800s. This is a FACT. The restoration was mentioned in "The Hiram Key" and it was remarked that it actually caused more damage than it 'restored"...but the fact that it was FREEMASONS who undertook the restoration was not mentioned at any time.It is not for me to unprove these misguided conclusions it is for you to prove them. Using facts not speculation. If i was 'speculating' I would say so. I am NOT speculating, at least, i am not speculating about the Freemsonic restoration of Rosslyn!. I wish I could remember where I read about Freemasons restoring Rosslyn in the 1800s! I recall that that bit of data gave me an "aha! moment...I figured that possibly, if there was in fact a"secret cult' associated with Rosslyn, that it might not be of any great antiquity, but have been established during this period to take advantage of the spiritual energies that were said to be operative at this time.
It was common knowledge among the adepti of the Western Esoteric Tradition, according to Manley P. Hall in "The Secret Teachings" that this period (late 1800s) was very spiritually significant. It was also mentioned by Dion Fortune in "The Mystical Qabalah" . I am quite conversant with the history of 'secret societies" and so it is hardly a stretch to SPECULATE that high-level (and WEALTHY) Scottish Freemasons might well have decided to avail themselves of the dilapidated Rosslyn Chapel as a "base of operations" for mystical Rites, seeing as how it was originally based on the Temple in Jerusalem..one thing I am quite sure of, is that they didn't go to all the trouble of "restoring" Rosslyn "just because"!
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Post by billmcelligott on Aug 22, 2011 22:12:29 GMT
Each have opinions not facts Here is what the Grand Lodge of BC and Yukon write in review of the Hiram Key. The Hiram Key is yet another example of "Von Daaniken’s syndrome" where wishful thinking and pre-determined conclusions replace facts in the presentation of opinion masquarading as theory. It is an entertaining read, and certainly presents some interesting ideas. But its presentation of opinion as fact does both Freemasonry and the academic study of masonic history a disservice. Trevor Mckeown freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/reviews/hiram_key.htmlI attended a lecture given by Trevor at Quatuor Coronati Lodge a couple of years back, very nice Guy and accepted as an expert in a number of fields of Masonic research. Actually i don't think there is a door on the annex room, but i could be wrong, there is certainly no hatch or door in the floor. Try reading robert cooper he deals in facts and research. www.rosslynhoax.com/You can not keep saying it is in the Hiram key then it is fact. Manley P Hall, wrote Secret Teachings , 30 years before he became a Freemason, it was speculation and opinion. he was a great writer though. One of the most widely read authorties on Templar History is Stephen Dafoe, here is what he reords after research about the St. Clairs One of the most curious episodes in the history of Freemasonry occurred at the time of the founding of the Grand Lodge of Scotland in 1736 when William St. Clair of Rosslyn (or Rossline, or Roslin) tendered his "resignation of the office of hereditary Grand Master" in order that in the future no confusions would arise as between his family and any Grand Master. The "resignation" begins by saying "that the Masons in Scotland did, by several deeds, constitute and appoint William and Sir William St. Clair of Rossline, my ancestors and their heirs, to be their patrons, protectors, judges, or masters," etc. Historians have doubted that any family ever held a suzerainty over the Craft in Scotland. Yet it is not impossible that it should have been true, for similar things occurred elsewhere. www.masonicdictionary.com/sinclair.htmlNow how can that be proved, what did Solomons temple look like. Have a look at what cooper says about that, if you want more you will have to buy the book. www.rosslynhoax.com/DaVinci.htm
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Post by boreades on Mar 30, 2019 15:10:15 GMT
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Post by offramp on Mar 31, 2019 19:28:47 GMT
That site is gone now. The author still has a web presence: www.robertldcooper.org/ and the book is still available. www.lewismasonic.co.uk/the-rosslyn-hoax.htm It really is a superb book.
After having read Bro Robert L D Cooper's sober analysis of Rosslyn Chapel, based on his years as the curator at Edinburgh's main Masonic Hall, I am less inclined to believe stories about such chimeras as Chladni patterns in 15th century stonework.
I suppose I am hopelessly sceptical.
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Post by peter2 on Mar 31, 2019 20:42:36 GMT
When I visited the Rosslyn Chapel I was particularly interested in the very worn steps that led down to a lower room where the floor was not worn. It was as if many many people had gone down there but the room was a dead end that few people had used. The same sort of wear on the stair treads I also saw in the towers of ancient castles
I rather think that the lower room used to lead somewhere but that it is now blocked off and a new floor laid.
It is said that it took 7 years to build the foundations of the "chapel" and that there is a tunnel leading to the nearby castle.
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