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Post by dante on Jul 20, 2009 7:14:03 GMT
Hey guys,
My name's Dante, I was raised a Christian. And although religion does a lot of good in the world, I cannot in my good conscious join any of them particularly. I've spent the past year studying them all...Unfortunately there was something I disagreed with in all of them. I had come to the conclusion that religion does nothing but divide. That's not to say I don't believe in God; I speak to Him directly on a daily basis.
Recently I've come across Freemasonry, and it has fascinated me...From what I know it lines up PERFECTLY with everything I believe! It's not a religion, its an ideology, and I really like that. So I guess my question is what are the pro's and con's most people give on Freemasonry? The only thing I found in my research was endless conspiracy hoaxes and theories, which don't do much for me.
I think I want to become a Freemason. What would I have to do to become one? What kinds of things should I know about it before I get involved? What opposition is there to Freemasonry, and why is it there?
I'd really appreciate any input...Thanks!
-Dante
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Post by magusmasonica on Jul 20, 2009 7:47:59 GMT
Hey guys, My name's Dante, I was raised a Christian. And although religion does a lot of good in the world, I cannot in my good conscious join any of them particularly. I've spent the past year studying them all...Unfortunately there was something I disagreed with in all of them. I had come to the conclusion that religion does nothing but divide. That's not to say I don't believe in God; I speak to Him directly on a daily basis. Recently I've come across Freemasonry, and it has fascinated me...From what I know it lines up PERFECTLY with everything I believe! It's not a religion, its an ideology, and I really like that. So I guess my question is what are the pro's and con's most people give on Freemasonry? The only thing I found in my research was endless conspiracy hoaxes and theories, which don't do much for me. I think I want to become a Freemason. What would I have to do to become one? What kinds of things should I know about it before I get involved? What opposition is there to Freemasonry, and why is it there? I'd really appreciate any input...Thanks! -Dante Hey Dante, First of all welcome to the forum. Freemasonry: Pro's IMHO: The Craft is a nice consolidation of ancient knowledge and magikal tradition. It helps to make cosmologies found within Hermetics, Quabbalah, Rosicrucian and the GD system of western magick accessable. It's a great primer. It also challenges us to understand and study the sciences and arts and philosophies. The academic aspects. The Craft also embraces egalitarian liberal ideas such as egalitarianism, humanism and philanthropy. Men and women from all backgrounds and walks of life can come together and share common interests and bonds. It allows us to grow together. Freemasons. Some of the very best people that I have had the pleasure of meeting I never would have met otherwise. Now we are Brothers from around the globe. Cons: The Craft is real work. Almost an exhausting amount of study as well as practical application is needed in order to be a true Craftsman. It will take up a huge amount of time and dedication. Your "real" life can quickly take a back seat and you have to be careful not to let that happen. Just as Freemasonry can build bonds with people you have never met before it can create seperation between yourself and those who you find no longer as interesting as you once did. Freemasons. Just as I have met some of the very best humanity has to offer so I have had to deal with the very worst. Not all Freemasons are created equal. Many are aweful egotists and oppertunists who will use your enthusiasm and love for the Craft against you to cause you great harm and to further their own agendas. You cannot let your guard down and you must always be cautious in your dealings with "Brothers." This is the really sad part. All in all it is a wonderful thing, with some rotten fruit along for the ride. If I where you I would go very slowly. Read all you can. I recommend you read. The Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosenkruez Folcults Pendulum by Emberto Eco The Sephir Yitzerah The Freemasons by Jasper Ridley Ask questions and take nothing as absolute gospel. Take your time. I hope this helps. ;D Love and Light,
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Post by dante on Jul 21, 2009 1:48:11 GMT
Hey guys, My name's Dante, I was raised a Christian. And although religion does a lot of good in the world, I cannot in my good conscious join any of them particularly. I've spent the past year studying them all...Unfortunately there was something I disagreed with in all of them. I had come to the conclusion that religion does nothing but divide. That's not to say I don't believe in God; I speak to Him directly on a daily basis. Recently I've come across Freemasonry, and it has fascinated me...From what I know it lines up PERFECTLY with everything I believe! It's not a religion, its an ideology, and I really like that. So I guess my question is what are the pro's and con's most people give on Freemasonry? The only thing I found in my research was endless conspiracy hoaxes and theories, which don't do much for me. I think I want to become a Freemason. What would I have to do to become one? What kinds of things should I know about it before I get involved? What opposition is there to Freemasonry, and why is it there? I'd really appreciate any input...Thanks! -Dante Hey Dante, First of all welcome to the forum. Freemasonry: Pro's IMHO: The Craft is a nice consolidation of ancient knowledge and magikal tradition. It helps to make cosmologies found within Hermetics, Quabbalah, Rosicrucian and the GD system of western magick accessable. It's a great primer. It also challenges us to understand and study the sciences and arts and philosophies. The academic aspects. The Craft also embraces egalitarian liberal ideas such as egalitarianism, humanism and philanthropy. Men and women from all backgrounds and walks of life can come together and share common interests and bonds. It allows us to grow together. Freemasons. Some of the very best people that I have had the pleasure of meeting I never would have met otherwise. Now we are Brothers from around the globe. Cons: The Craft is real work. Almost an exhausting amount of study as well as practical application is needed in order to be a true Craftsman. It will take up a huge amount of time and dedication. Your "real" life can quickly take a back seat and you have to be careful not to let that happen. Just as Freemasonry can build bonds with people you have never met before it can create seperation between yourself and those who you find no longer as interesting as you once did. Freemasons. Just as I have met some of the very best humanity has to offer so I have had to deal with the very worst. Not all Freemasons are created equal. Many are aweful egotists and oppertunists who will use your enthusiasm and love for the Craft against you to cause you great harm and to further their own agendas. You cannot let your guard down and you must always be cautious in your dealings with "Brothers." This is the really sad part. All in all it is a wonderful thing, with some rotten fruit along for the ride. If I where you I would go very slowly. Read all you can. I recommend you read. The Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosenkruez Folcults Pendulum by Emberto Eco The Sephir Yitzerah The Freemasons by Jasper Ridley Ask questions and take nothing as absolute gospel. Take your time. I hope this helps. ;D Love and Light, Thanks magusmasonica for your input; i guess my next question would be what do you mean by ancient magic? i really have no interest in getting into that...
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Post by generatics on Jul 21, 2009 19:52:33 GMT
Hi Dante. A useful thing to understand is that all sorts of folks practice Freemasonry for all sorts of different reasons. There are people who are involved because they are passionate about doing charity work. Others enjoy the fraternal aspects of it. Some just want to get out of the house once a month. And some are pursuing the more esoteric aspects of the Craft.
Masonry is, at its core, an esoteric system. That is sure. But the beauty of it is that it has been designed to be accessible and useful for many different purposes and people. Brothers who use Masonry as a spiritual path sit in the Lodge beside those who are there to help raise money for charity, beside those who like getting dressed up in a suit and meeting with friends for a meal. All are equal.
There are many, many "levels" or sides of Freemasonry. By poking around this place for a bit you'll likely find that much of the discussions here are us simply pondering these things and working to figure it all out, for our own personal reasons. It's beautiful.
I know plenty of Brothers that choose not to delve deeply into the ritual meanings. They take them at face value as lessons in morality, and apply them to their lives as best they can. They are more than happy with the results and the positive changes it has brought to their lives. I can say with absolute confidence that of all the Brothers I know, who are there for all these different reasons, none have not been rewarded with plenty of good from it.
I think the most important question is one to ask yourself; What are you looking to get out of it? That's really all that matters in determining whether it's right for you. You can take the pieces of it that work for you and explore them, nurture them and use them how you wish, and ignore the ones that don't. You will not be judged.
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Post by magusmasonica on Jul 23, 2009 22:18:39 GMT
Hey Dante, First of all welcome to the forum. Freemasonry: Pro's IMHO: The Craft is a nice consolidation of ancient knowledge and magikal tradition. It helps to make cosmologies found within Hermetics, Quabbalah, Rosicrucian and the GD system of western magick accessable. It's a great primer. It also challenges us to understand and study the sciences and arts and philosophies. The academic aspects. The Craft also embraces egalitarian liberal ideas such as egalitarianism, humanism and philanthropy. Men and women from all backgrounds and walks of life can come together and share common interests and bonds. It allows us to grow together. Freemasons. Some of the very best people that I have had the pleasure of meeting I never would have met otherwise. Now we are Brothers from around the globe. Cons: The Craft is real work. Almost an exhausting amount of study as well as practical application is needed in order to be a true Craftsman. It will take up a huge amount of time and dedication. Your "real" life can quickly take a back seat and you have to be careful not to let that happen. Just as Freemasonry can build bonds with people you have never met before it can create seperation between yourself and those who you find no longer as interesting as you once did. Freemasons. Just as I have met some of the very best humanity has to offer so I have had to deal with the very worst. Not all Freemasons are created equal. Many are aweful egotists and oppertunists who will use your enthusiasm and love for the Craft against you to cause you great harm and to further their own agendas. You cannot let your guard down and you must always be cautious in your dealings with "Brothers." This is the really sad part. All in all it is a wonderful thing, with some rotten fruit along for the ride. If I where you I would go very slowly. Read all you can. I recommend you read. The Chemical Wedding of Christian Rosenkruez Folcults Pendulum by Emberto Eco The Sephir Yitzerah The Freemasons by Jasper Ridley Ask questions and take nothing as absolute gospel. Take your time. I hope this helps. ;D Love and Light, Thanks magusmasonica for your input; i guess my next question would be what do you mean by ancient magic? i really have no interest in getting into that... " Iamblichus, the Alexandrian philosopher, in writing of the Mysteries, says: “Using the reason alone Man can never come to any true realization of what he is in himself; that is, he can never understand by the mind alone that he is an eternal spiritual entity, a brilliant star shining by the light of its own essence.” Iamblichus makes it quite clear that “not by discursive reasoning or through philosophical thinking alone does one come into fellowship with the gods. It is through the awakening of the higher spiritual powers by means of the rites of theurgy that the consummation of the long ages is effected.” Now “theurgy” is simply another name for magic—the magic of the Masonic ritual, let us say, the modern vehicle of the Ancient Mysteries through which the Seeker for the Light may find reality. This great purpose is beautifully stated by Bro. Wilmshurst. “The union of the personal soul with its divine principle—Masonry has no other objective than this,” says Bro. Wilmshurst. “All other matters of interest connected with it are but details subsidiary to this supreme achievement.” Freemasonry is ceremonial magic—a mystical system established in the dim ages of the past by those spiritual teachers who were the guides of our infant humanity, and which remains today the chalice of the wisdom, unchanged in its inner potency, ever available to all who seek. The neophyte entering a Masonic lodge has this wonderful opportunity to find the ancient path, but that “door which gives upon the Infinite” will open only for the candidate whose deepest longing is for spiritual understanding." By The Very Ills Brother Edith F. Armour 33°
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Post by billmcelligott on Jul 24, 2009 6:50:23 GMT
Hey guys, My name's Dante, I was raised a Christian. And although religion does a lot of good in the world, I cannot in my good conscious join any of them particularly. I've spent the past year studying them all...Unfortunately there was something I disagreed with in all of them. I had come to the conclusion that religion does nothing but divide. That's not to say I don't believe in God; I speak to Him directly on a daily basis. Recently I've come across Freemasonry, and it has fascinated me...From what I know it lines up PERFECTLY with everything I believe! It's not a religion, its an ideology, and I really like that. So I guess my question is what are the pro's and con's most people give on Freemasonry? The only thing I found in my research was endless conspiracy hoaxes and theories, which don't do much for me. I think I want to become a Freemason. What would I have to do to become one? What kinds of things should I know about it before I get involved? What opposition is there to Freemasonry, and why is it there? I'd really appreciate any input...Thanks! -Dante Well Dante, I do not subscibe to the Mystical rites in Freemasonry, they play little or no part in mainstream Freemasonry. My Grand Lodge explains Freemasonry as follows. With regard to Religion, all the mainstream Grand Lodges deny that Freemasonry is a Religion, it follows the doctrine of the Faith you have selected and does not dictate any doctrine. All over the world you will find Masonry in different forms and different groups, some accept each other some do not. I attended a Lodge meeting last night, there were 46 men there. I knew 2 of them before I visited I now know 46. I feel at home in my Lodge and any of the Lodges I visit. I would never suggest to anyone to join Freemasonry to make of it a Religion. But if you want to meet some really great people then that is the best reason. It is like a Train journey, you can always get off, any time you want.
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Post by lauderdale on Jul 24, 2009 9:38:51 GMT
In the nearly 21 years that I have been a Freemason I have found the response of individual Brethren varies considerbly to the question as to what religious significance, if any, The Craft has for them.
Some take the same line as Bro Mc Elligott that "Freemasonry is not a religion". Whilst as with a great many matters Masonic I do not agree with him, I can respect his opinion.
I have also met quite a few Brethren who take the diametrically opposite stance and who consider Freemasonry to be their religion, perhaps because they had no other, or that in which they were brought up proved to be wanting in their case. Again, fair play to them too. Most of us need something in which to believe and to act as a guide in our lives and The Craft contains some wonderful principles to live up to and in which to find comfort.
Then there are people like myself who do have a religion, in my case I am High Anglican, but who do desire and enjoy the more Esoteric, Mystical and Symbolical aspects of Freemasonry to be found in the Higher Degrees rather than the Social or the external Charity attributes thereof, very worthy though those may be. In my case I look upon Freemasonry as an adjunct to my religion and indeed whilst I was undergoing a bad patch in my life from early 1992 till late 1994, "The dark night of the soul", I found that my belief in The Craft sustained me and bolstered my Faith. To me being a Freemason compliments my being a High Anglican and the two produce a synergy in my belief in Almighty God and Our Lord Jesus Christ.
The type of Freemasonry to which I belong, Le Droit Humain, Co-Freemasonry, is very Mystical compared to Grand Lodge Freemasonry , especially in the Lauderdale ritual my Craft Lodges use, and I have met many deeply spiritual people in LDH who have been of great assistance to me in my own quest in life.
In the end I remember the words of an UGLE Grand Officer I met early in my Masonic career, and who has long been called to the Grand Lodge Eternal. He stated that we all put different things into Freemasonry and get different things out of it in return and it is what we make of it.
There is no right or wrong answer, no "My Freemasonry is better than your Freemasonry" Bro Mc Elligott and I may get far different things from The Craft but our "take" on Freemasonry is right for each of us as individuals, but binding on nobody else. All of us have an Ashlar on which to work and what we make of it and how we use the Working Tools of Freemasonry to fashion it is for each to determine and apply.
Dante, I wish you well and may God be with you in your quest.
RW Bro S J Foley 18°
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Post by billmcelligott on Jul 24, 2009 10:34:50 GMT
I think we disagree on less than we agree on Bro. Lauderdale.
I gave my opinion because after being given the cold fact that "The Craft is a nice consolidation of ancient knowledge and magikal tradition."
The questioner 'Dante' made it clear he wanted no part of that concept. He should obviously be made aware that all that glitters is not magikal, and that there are less controversial Freemasonry available.
I agree with lauderdale that Freemasonry is a buttress to my Faith. Like everything in life I believe a good foundation gives you the ability to make the right decisions for you. With some if they do not have that foundation then, life is difficult. Like having a loving and understanding family. That is what Freemasonry is IMHO.
So while as Lauderdale says he and I do not agree on many things, if he needed a friend [which he has many I am sure] he can call on me at any time. He is part of my extended family and I would find it impossible to turn my back and do nothing, if he was in trouble of some kind.
I am not saying that others opinions and views are of no use, they may well fit into the imagination of some, but any new candidate should be made aware of what is available to them and that it is their choice what kind of Freemasonry would suite them.
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Post by lauderdale on Jul 24, 2009 11:08:22 GMT
"......but any new candidate should be made aware of what is available to them and that it is their choice what kind of Freemasonry would suit them. "
I can certainly agree wholeheartedly with you there Bro Bill.
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Post by magusmasonica on Jul 24, 2009 16:36:26 GMT
Bro.Bill, That "fit into their imagination" remark was offensive and uncalled for. Love and Light,
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Post by billmcelligott on Jul 24, 2009 18:29:50 GMT
Bro.Bill, That "fit into their imagination" remark was offensive and uncalled for. Love and Light, And why pray would that be offensive ? Is what I said, and it seems a perfectly reasonable comment. Before a person joins, or when you are an FC or indeed a Master Mason you do not know, therefore it can only exist in your imagination. If you wish to replace with 'intuitive cognitive thinking'. I am happy with that.
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Post by magusmasonica on Jul 24, 2009 18:32:50 GMT
Where did I mention prayer? Love and Light,
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Post by billmcelligott on Jul 24, 2009 18:52:31 GMT
One of us is looking for problems where they do not exist. Means please tell me, why would that be offensive. www.answerbag.com/q_view/54888Actually, the expression is 'pray tell' and it means essentially 'please tell me/us.' It is a piece of rhetoric and uses 'pray' in its archaic meaning of 'implore.' So the expression is a contraction of 'I pray (implore) you to tell me/us.'
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Post by generatics on Jul 24, 2009 19:12:21 GMT
just to hop in from a third party perspective on this... i did understand what Bill meant in the post when he said "imagination...", but i can totally see how it could be read in a different way after Brad's comment. ah, the beauty of communicating via plain text.
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Post by abri on Jul 25, 2009 15:50:28 GMT
Hey guys, My name's Dante, I was raised a Christian. And although religion does a lot of good in the world, I cannot in my good conscious join any of them particularly. I've spent the past year studying them all...Unfortunately there was something I disagreed with in all of them. I had come to the conclusion that religion does nothing but divide. That's not to say I don't believe in God; I speak to Him directly on a daily basis. Recently I've come across Freemasonry, and it has fascinated me...From what I know it lines up PERFECTLY with everything I believe! It's not a religion, its an ideology, and I really like that. So I guess my question is what are the pro's and con's most people give on Freemasonry? The only thing I found in my research was endless conspiracy hoaxes and theories, which don't do much for me. I think I want to become a Freemason. What would I have to do to become one? What kinds of things should I know about it before I get involved? What opposition is there to Freemasonry, and why is it there? I'd really appreciate any input...Thanks! -Dante Hi Dante, I have just joined this forum and came across your entry, considering to join Freemasonry. Well, if I were you, I would reconsider that idea SERIOUSLY! You see, finding your religion is not the issue. It is finding Jesus! Once you have Him you will know for sure. And you know what? He hates religion also. I have been a mason for many years until I found Jesus last year, or should I say, He “found” me. I realised then and saw the multitude of conflicts and obstacles in the way of being a true follower of Jesus and continuing my Masonic career simultaneously. Although I really enjoyed masonry for all the “wrong” reasons I had to make a difficult decision when I realised being a true born-again Christian and follower of Jesus AND being a mason do not go together. One has to decide – which is more important! Jesus said He is the Truth the Life and the Way. He provides everlasting Life. Masonry provides human fellowship and friendship mixed in with a whole lot of things objectionable to God Almighty. Given a choice between ; (A) short-time fellowship with men and everlasting scorn from God; or (B) short-time scorn from man and everlasting fellowship with God; I would take option (B) every time. The thing to remember is this : Freemasonry is NOT the innocent brotherly fraternity it promulgates to be. Becoming a member may have everlasting consequences. Investigate that fact from ALL angles before you make that vital decision. Blessings.
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Post by generatics on Jul 25, 2009 18:29:35 GMT
oh boy. this has all the right ingredients. *gets popcorn*
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Post by magusmasonica on Jul 25, 2009 18:55:49 GMT
oh boy. this has all the right ingredients. *gets popcorn* *Sniff* *Sniff* smells like bait to me. ;D
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Post by billmcelligott on Jul 25, 2009 19:07:47 GMT
abri
Please note the Forum is called Masonic Forum of Light.
You are perfectly entitled to your opinion. You are perfectly entitled to ask any potential candidate to examine his reasons before joining, I think we would all agree if the candidate has any doubts, don't join.
If you are afraid of God;s wrath do not join.
However this is not a religious forum, there are many religious forum and you can discuss subjects of Faith there.
We make it clear that we do not expect any candidate for Freemasonry to follow any one particular Faith. So to presume this person who has enquired is a Christian is a false assumption. They clearly stated they did not find a home in a Christian Church, but they have a daily dialogue with God.
I am just giving an early warning , if you believe you can use this forum as an evangelical platform, you will find that is not going to be allowed. Other than that you are welcome to contribute.
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Post by leonardo on Jul 25, 2009 21:16:38 GMT
Hey guys, My name's Dante, I was raised a Christian. And although religion does a lot of good in the world, I cannot in my good conscious join any of them particularly. I've spent the past year studying them all...Unfortunately there was something I disagreed with in all of them. I had come to the conclusion that religion does nothing but divide. That's not to say I don't believe in God; I speak to Him directly on a daily basis. Recently I've come across Freemasonry, and it has fascinated me...From what I know it lines up PERFECTLY with everything I believe! It's not a religion, its an ideology, and I really like that. So I guess my question is what are the pro's and con's most people give on Freemasonry? The only thing I found in my research was endless conspiracy hoaxes and theories, which don't do much for me. I think I want to become a Freemason. What would I have to do to become one? What kinds of things should I know about it before I get involved? What opposition is there to Freemasonry, and why is it there? I'd really appreciate any input...Thanks! -Dante Hi Dante, I have just joined this forum and came across your entry, considering to join Freemasonry. Well, if I were you, I would reconsider that idea SERIOUSLY! You see, finding your religion is not the issue. It is finding Jesus! Once you have Him you will know for sure. And you know what? He hates religion also. I have been a mason for many years until I found Jesus last year, or should I say, He “found” me. I realised then and saw the multitude of conflicts and obstacles in the way of being a true follower of Jesus and continuing my Masonic career simultaneously. Although I really enjoyed masonry for all the “wrong” reasons I had to make a difficult decision when I realised being a true born-again Christian and follower of Jesus AND being a mason do not go together. One has to decide – which is more important! Jesus said He is the Truth the Life and the Way. He provides everlasting Life. Masonry provides human fellowship and friendship mixed in with a whole lot of things objectionable to God Almighty. Given a choice between ; (A) short-time fellowship with men and everlasting scorn from God; or (B) short-time scorn from man and everlasting fellowship with God; I would take option (B) every time. The thing to remember is this : Freemasonry is NOT the innocent brotherly fraternity it promulgates to be. Becoming a member may have everlasting consequences. Investigate that fact from ALL angles before you make that vital decision. Blessings. There are indeed some everlasting consequences to becoming a Mason - and all of them good as far as I'm concerned Look at it this way, it is not for everyone but for the right people Freemasonry offers an opportunity to grow as a person, to learn important lessons about oneself, life and everything in the known world, and in some cases even beyond. Relax, enjoy the forum and you may learn to appreciate Masonry again
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Post by humbleseeker1 on Jul 29, 2009 5:45:30 GMT
I know I shouldnt talk about religion and I respect all of them of course I have my own. but within this fraternity I will not evangeaize. but to abri, I have seen some of the strangest new age practices coming from people that are supposedly Christian, Churches such as the AOG, and foursquare are emotion driven, giving false hope to reap major profits. I am not afraid to point a finger. Faith without works is dead freemasonry does many works for the good of mankind and helps yourself become a better person. Yes since you were a Mason there are rituals but what about the rituals of the church? rituals help us remeber and grow, they make alive the teachings. I am a Christian who I will admit could be a better one, but we are all sinners human beings just trying to get through life. I think freemasonry is something that if you want it to help you on the journey of life.
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