Augur
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Travelling salesman. Roamin' profit.
Posts: 184
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Post by Augur on Dec 13, 2009 20:12:48 GMT
To assume that a ritualist doesn't take the Lux Occulta and then apply it in life would be an aussumption I would be unwilling to make. I don't tend to assume. Deduce, yes. Assume, no. Yet you have no difficulty making this erroneous assumption: You cannot, seriously cannot be a Craftsman without an basic understanding of why things are the way things are within universal Masonic cosmology. I know personally of at least a dozen Masons off the top of my head that don't have the slightest inkling of what the Qabbalah is. Yet, somehow they are sublime Masons in their theory, history, knowledge and performance of ritual, and practice in daily life. Men that dwarf your understanding of Freemasonry. Craftsmen each and every one - without even the basic understanding of what the Qabbalah even is.
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Post by whistler on Dec 13, 2009 21:04:54 GMT
BTW: I never stated you weren't a Craftsman, Whistler. Bluecob and I usually don't agree on much. My Point being when statements are made like "You cannot, seriously cannot be a Craftsman without an basic understanding of why things are the way things are within universal Masonic cosmology." It immediately suggests that only those of a particular understanding can be a Freemason
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Post by enki on Dec 14, 2009 2:00:53 GMT
We should consider that lodge layout differs from rite to rite. We, therefore, cannot ascribe a universal symbology to each permutation. Also, there are rites that do not have the proscription of crossing between the WM and VSL. Therefore, we cannot make any proclamations for this or for that when the vast differences in ritual form have not yet been examined in this particular discussion.
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Post by sid on Dec 14, 2009 9:55:43 GMT
As in the title a 'basic' knowledge could well be useful if one is so inclined, and it could also be a 'key' to an understanding of ones own personal path. My point exactly. We can talk about individual paths and such but this thread was not presented in such a way. It was presented as an absolute certainty that QBL is required in order to understand masonry. Hassan ibn Sabbah Here is a book link: www.scribd.com/doc/3803727/Martinism-history-and-doctrine
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Post by assassin on Dec 14, 2009 17:54:32 GMT
A basic knowledge of grammar, rhetoric, and logic are also quite helpful and a good deal more essential than a study of QBL in any of its versions.
Hassan ibn Sabbah
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Post by methuselah on Dec 15, 2009 0:09:51 GMT
Yes, the Quabbalistic Tree of Life overlays on the lodgeroom floor. If you know the sephiroth and what they represent and how they move you will then understand Masonic cadence and framework found with every Masonic rite. That is what I have found. Then you might want to look again. It's a contrived fit.
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Post by sid on Dec 15, 2009 22:33:10 GMT
Greetings, Yes, the Quabbalistic Tree of Life overlays on the lodgeroom floor. If you know the sephiroth and what they represent and how they move you will then understand Masonic cadence and framework found with every Masonic rite. That is what I have found. Then you might want to look again. It's a contrived fit. This is one of the problems that I had with the QBL, so many books and people saying different things. Wanting, even forcing it to fit in some cases. But I have also come across this regarding other subjects of study upon the path. Regarding the QBL, Carlo Suares (Carlo Suarès) is worth taking a closet look at: www.psyche.com/psyche/psyche.htmlThat said, if there is a QBL class or group of instruction in a Masonic Lodge then I am sure that it has its place should a Mason 'feel' drawn to it. Perhaps the complexity distracts from the truth to be found in simplicity. It is also woth remembering the words "Stolen water is sweet." Many are drawn to the sweetness.
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Post by sid on Dec 15, 2009 22:52:07 GMT
Greetings Augur, [/quote] I know personally of at least a dozen Masons off the top of my head that don't have the slightest inkling of what the Qabbalah is. Yet, somehow they are sublime Masons in their theory, history, knowledge and performance of ritual, and practice in daily life. Men that dwarf your understanding of Freemasonry. Craftsmen each and every one - without even the basic understanding of what the Qabbalah even is.[/quote] Good point. I have also met a few Masons who know little or nothing about the QBL. Not a problem. Perhaps problems are caused by other egregors 'interfering' with the work of a Lodge. www.crcsite.org/egregor.htm
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Augur
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Travelling salesman. Roamin' profit.
Posts: 184
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Post by Augur on Dec 16, 2009 4:57:15 GMT
Good point. I have also met a few Masons who know little or nothing about the QBL. Not a problem. Perhaps problems are caused by other egregors 'interfering' with the work of a Lodge. www.crcsite.org/egregor.htmHello Sid! I'm not sure there's any problem at all with studying the QBL, or at least I hope not! I've been a student of the QBL for decades and I find it very valuable and useful. In fact, for some forms of study (like the Tarot) you can't do without it. But I digress... As far as Masonry is concerned, I don't see it as critical. The proof is there for all to see. Most get along fine without it. I might find certain Qabbalistic practices or ways of thinking very enlightening, but I'm not so foolish to think that what works for me will necessarily net similar results for anyone else. We each have our own ways and our own methods and as much as we may meet in Lodge I believe the minutiae of our Path is very personal. We each supplement & add to our skills with the Working Tools as we are able, according to our talents and needs. S&F
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KNOs1s
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I am inclined agree or disagree based on the quality and quantity of proffered information.
Posts: 1,330
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Post by KNOs1s on Jan 11, 2010 19:02:04 GMT
I agree. It's rather dogmatic to suggest an individual must know about the Kabbalah to be a Mason. I doubt the larger portion of Masons in the 18th century had even heard the word. I've done a fair amount of studying the Kabbalah, yet I know many brothers I doubt have. Some of the best men I've ever occasioned to meet. Kabbalistic discussions in lodge or the appendent degrees and study groups is common enough, yet not required.
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Post by beersheva on Mar 1, 2014 16:41:25 GMT
The secret doctrines of kabbalah, Gnosticism, Hermeticism, Alchemy and Magia all had streams flowing into Masonry, but were never intended for everyone, and never have been. The book on kabbalah that anyone can pick up at the local book store is NOT the LUX OCCULTA, although it may influence a person towards the LVX. Masonry has many things it transmits to make a "good person better", but very few will ever attain to the position of adept in any age. Each person will find in Masonry what is appropriate for the person at that particular time and age, and incarnation. An initiate does not need to view a ring, jewel, a grip, a sign or anything else a person wears externally to recognize another true initiate.
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Post by hokmah3579 on Oct 23, 2014 4:00:17 GMT
To attempt to circumvent these inscrutable monomyths with pseudo-archetypal drivel can only interrupt the insurmountable Journey (Separation, Initiation and Return), that prevents the true aspirant from achieving his ultimate aims and destination in due course. J ... Invisible Expanded Master, to describe another's journey with such derision indicates to me that you may be looking at the Tree the wrong way round. Malkut, the physical manifestation of the Mother and described as a widow or divorced woman, is based at the base of the Pillar of Equilibrium or Compassion. One of her Divine Names, according to Judaic Kabbala, is Yahweh, pronounced Adonai.. which is composed of the four hebrew letters Aleph, Dalet, Nun and Yod. Aleph, the yoke of Spirit enters the doors of Dalet and Nun, life and death - so that Yod (the Holy Spark or Seed of Light) may become anchored here on Earth. Bring Heaven to Earth? Take Earth to Heaven? If you are a mason you will see clearly many comparisons. Is it incidental that Tiparet, the Heart and the Middle Chamber all have Light above them? Everything is connected to everything else... but it does take many years, and dare I say, life times, to recognise or realise some things. To ridicule anyone for their efforts is just not on. That which you possess and refuse to share happily with your Brothers will be taken from you. Maat PS Many thanks Tau Malachi for your inspirational words. well said!
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hwhy
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Post by hwhy on May 18, 2016 4:47:05 GMT
www.masonicinfo.com/esotericismfaq.htm4. Why would anyone object to esotericism in Masonry? a. Some people may misunderstand esotericism as un-Masonic. Most Masons who consider themselves esotericists are individuals practicing "regular" Masonry in duly constituted lodges in accordance with the ancient charges and landmarks. Masonic esotericists are not making a religion of Masonry, though they are often exploring its spiritual implications. Some of these regular Masonic esotericists may also belong to unofficial Masonic clubs or groups based upon their shared interest in esotericism. However, there are a number of unrecognized, spurious, or clandestine organizations claiming the right to make Masons and emphasizing esotericism as central to their teaching and aims. Being a Masonic esotericist does not mean that one belongs to any such organization. b. Some people may be concerned that esotericism is incompatible with the "Abrahamic" faiths, or even "satanic". Masonic esotericists believe in the same principles, virtues, and ideals that unite all Masons, no matter what their specific religious preferences. From a radically conservative or fundamentalist point of view it may be impossible to think of esotericism as anything but heresy and even evil, but the same is true of Masonry. From such a perspective it is almost always the case that one's own beliefs are the only ones that are good or true while everything else is evil or false. The fact is that there have been and are now esoteric traditions in all three of the great Western religions. In Christianity there are the contemplative practices of monastic orders like the Jesuits, as well as apostolic denominations and churches that are Gnostic in orientation. In Judaism there are a number of esoteric currents, including the orthodox Chabad Kabbalists of the Chasidim. In Islam there are the Sufi orders. c. Masonic esotericists have not always exercised the highest standards in their historical research of Masonry and, as a result, have made claims about the fraternity's origins that are easily discredited. Often this pattern has been more about incomplete research, unreliable or discredited sources, and overconfidence in speculations than it has been about any intention to mislead anyone. The most scholarly of Masonic esotericists know the difference between speculations and substantive conclusions, and they are comfortable in acknowledging which kinds of thoughts they are voicing. d. Some Masons have publicly accused Masonic esotericists of intellectual conceit and elitism. In their enthusiasm for what they have personally discovered in their esoteric studies and practices, some Masons have been overzealous in presenting them as the secret or true meanings of Masonic ritual and symbolism. Such authors are at times offensive in their claims that a "real" Mason must be an esotericist who thinks just as they do. Intolerance and narrow-mindedness is no more acceptable from esotericists than it is from any other Mason. Conscientious Masonic esotericists understand that no single Mason or group of Masons speaks for the entire fraternity. They also warmly acknowledge that there are many different interests that men can explore in Masonry, that we are all equal in our obligations to one another, and that our fraternity is united in its dedication to God and by the cement of brotherly love and affection.
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74bradwatsonmiami
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I've fulfilled Revelation 5:1 producing the "book/scroll sealed w/ 7 seals"/beyond Einstein theories
Posts: 12
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Post by 74bradwatsonmiami on Oct 26, 2016 19:28:09 GMT
I should point out that the rhumba is organized according to rhythmic principles governed by the Fibonacci series; i.e., 8 = 3 + ( 3 + 2) (or 5) and so there's somewhat of a relationship to the Golden Mean. As we discover in the MC lecture, Music, as one of the 7 Liberal Arts, utilizes this principle of dynamic symmetry inherent in the Fibanacci Series and hinted at by the Tetractys of Pythagoras, upon which the Kabalah is based. Thus, the secret ingredient common to the 4 members of the Quadrivium, Mathematics, Geometry, Music and Astronomy, would seem to be the Golden Mean. The primary 'secret ingredient common to the 7 Liberal Arts and 4 members of the Quadrivium' is GOD=7_4 Theory - see GOD704.wikia.com .
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micha
New Member
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Post by micha on Oct 14, 2018 7:27:04 GMT
He Who Looks Upon Him Has No Measure Of Time. It Is At An End...
He Alone Knows The Secret Upon Which Many Are Tried. A Secret Known To Cause The Bearer Absolute Misery. The King Speaks:
Tenets: • "Help Me, Please." • "I Am Here To Help."
Cábala Is Not For Wonder... It Does Not Offer Enlightenment... It Does Award The Knower Of It's Secret Understanding...
Psalm 55:10 Day And Night They Prowl About It's Walls; Malice And Abuse Are Within It. note- a cabalistic expression, literally!
There Is No Comfort In The Truth... Adam Kadmon Is Outside God's Grace. Will You Help Him... ?
Neither Christian, Nor Judaic, Nor Islamic, Nor Masonic Device Can Mend The Telling Of The Two Tenets. Time Has Run Out! Go Now And See To Your House... The King Waits!
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micha
New Member
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Post by micha on Oct 14, 2018 7:51:56 GMT
greetings...
i am micha, initiate of the order of the scarlet cup...
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Post by peter2 on Oct 14, 2018 23:04:32 GMT
>Adam Kadmon Is Outside God's Grace.
Would you like to tell us what is Adam Kadmon?
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micha
New Member
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Post by micha on Oct 21, 2018 13:16:15 GMT
Would you like to tell us what is Adam Kadmon? Do Not Chant Strange And Obscured Names, Especially Those Of False And/Or Strange Gods... However... If You Can Tell Me What Makes Them False And/Or Strange... I Will Tell You The Mystery Of Adam Kadmon And His Sons... note- Sorry You Had To Wait For A Response...
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Post by peter2 on Oct 22, 2018 7:45:23 GMT
>Do Not Chant Strange And Obscured Names
It is said that most Earth humans have an Adam Kadmon type body. Accordingly there are occasional alien comments that humans do not need technology as they can manifest whatever they want.
If this is true then it is important that Earth humans remain ignorant otherwise they would rise up and take possession of the Earth.
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Post by bradwatson74 on May 4, 2019 13:40:38 GMT
I teach Kaballa740 with an emphasis on comparitive religion 74 & science. So much of traditional Kabbalah is mystical bullshit from the Dark Ages that's a HUGE waste of time! Sure, if your willing to pan for gold all day, you might come up with a couple small nuggets that barely make the time spent worthwhile. See 7seals.blogspot.com and 7seals.yuku.com .
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