mre
Member
Posts: 17
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Post by mre on Dec 5, 2009 22:56:20 GMT
Hello,
First, a big thank you to all of you who took the time to read and reply to my previous post regarding method.
I have another couple of questions. The lodge I am considering contacting displays on its web page a reference to the emulation ritual ("working in emulation").
First - and I guess this is a probably a common question- I saw that this ritual requires memorization of the three ceremonies: are we talking about a couple paragraphs, pages, chapters or books?
Second, and more important to me, I read that due to the nature of the ritual the "godfather" of an apprentice could tell him with relative certainty that he would attain the "rank" of "venerable", and most probably the year he would too.
It sounds strange to me, i.e. contrary to the principle that people reach achievements/levels according to their merit?
If everyone takes x years to the first, a further y years to the next, etc... then doesn't that by definition imply that progress is due to sticking to it rather than demonstrating progress at whatever personal rate?
I saw this in wikipedia, so I realise it probably needs to be taken with a pinch of salt, but it made me curious.
PS: words hyphenated above denote my (poor) translation from French, i.e most probably not the correct terms in English, apologies.
Best MrE.
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Post by lauderdale on Dec 5, 2009 23:37:09 GMT
Ok. I will try to answer this one. I assume you are French from your use of Venerable to equate with Master.
Emulation is probably the most commonly used Ritual in UGLE Craft Lodges and has lots of variations to it in individual Lodges which are not in the Ritual Book. There are others such as Taylors, Sussex, Oxford, Universal, Logic, West End etc.
By "Godfather" I take it you mean the Proposer or possibly the new office of Mentor which UGLE Lodges have recently introduced? In many UGLE Lodges progress is quite quick from the First Degree-Entered Apprentice to the Third Degree of Master Mason (not the same as Master of the Lodge) . The quickest it can be done is in three months but usually it takes a bit longer than that. If the Lodge has many candidates going through then this can take longer.
In an UGLE Lodge the Candidate for Initiation does not have to memorise anything. Those progressing to the Second or Third Degree do need to memorise a list of Questions and Answers.Other Masonic Bodies have a longer period between the Degrees and more requirements of the Candidate before they can progress to the next Degree.
The various Officers, especially the Master of the Lodge "Venerable Maitre" or Worshipful Master as they are called in UGLE , do have to memorise the Rituals.
I hope this is useful to you and I am sure that some of the UGLE Brethren who post here will correct any mistakes I may have made or amplify any points I have glossed over. I am a member of Le Droit Humain, (LDH) , a Co-Masonic Order. We are in Amity with Grand Orient de France GOdF although we are an Independent Masonic Order with our HQ in Paris.
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Post by parisfred on Dec 6, 2009 19:36:46 GMT
dear MrE,
There is no " planche" or work to progress from one degree to another in emulation or any anglosaxon rituals...
In order to be a WM ( le venerable) you need to be 1st warden before ( 1er surveillant) the office of WM is not as important as it is in French lodges ( where a WM stay 3 years sometimes more...) its an important office but not a goal in a masonic life.
Most of the time- when everything is fine - once you're a master you can guess when you are going to be the WM of your lodge. In France it depends of an election and most of the brothers never sits in the chair of the king Solomon.
This is why, in my opinions, french masonry is more elitist and anglo american more egalitarian.
But then there is the problem of memorizing... Memorizing is not understanding.. English practice masonry with less understanding than french. they do masonic ceremony, beautiful ceremony, but just ceremony.
And french masons study every words, signs and symbols but have no time left for active practice and the ceremony are read and most of times boring...
If you're interrested to see emulation in Paris sent me a message. - there is men or women lodge, no mixed lodge yet -
fraternally,
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mre
Member
Posts: 17
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Post by mre on Dec 7, 2009 20:56:52 GMT
Thank you Lauderdale and Parisfred; I understand now that the memorization work comes after becoming a master. I gather from your answers that once a Master, a Freemason would then occupy various offices or roles and progress that way through the "ranks"? Parisfred, thank you very much for your invitation, but I live in Eastern Europe now and rarely get go home. I guess I will have to see for myself here In any case, it was very kind of you to offer. I did not realize it was possible to attend a lodge meeting if one wasn't already a Freemason? You have all been very nice to answer my questions. I will do more reading over the holiday period and formulate what Freemasonry means for me, then contact the local lodge in the new year. I find it a little intimidating, not quite sure why since you all sound like very nice chaps and chapesses ;D If you have any tips to share about contacting a lodge, I would be happy to read them. Best MrE.
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Post by letterorhalveit3 on Dec 8, 2009 2:41:18 GMT
dear MrE, There is no " planche" or work to progress from one degree to another in emulation or any anglosaxon rituals... In order to be a WM ( le venerable) you need to be 1st warden before ( 1er surveillant) the office of WM is not as important as it is in French lodges ( where a WM stay 3 years sometimes more...) its an important office but not a goal in a masonic life. Most of the time- when everything is fine - once you're a master you can guess when you are going to be the WM of your lodge. In France it depends of an election and most of the brothers never sits in the chair of the king Solomon. This is why, in my opinions, french masonry is more elitist and anglo american more egalitarian. But then there is the problem of memorizing... Memorizing is not understanding.. English practice masonry with less understanding than french. they do masonic ceremony, beautiful ceremony, but just ceremony. And french masons study every words, signs and symbols but have no time left for active practice and the ceremony are read and most of times boring... If you're interrested to see emulation in Paris sent me a message. - there is men or women lodge, no mixed lodge yet - fraternally, Im not sure if you are lumping American ritual (read as Preston Webb) into the group that has come to be known as Anglo-Saxon Masonry, but there is most certainly work to be memorized to progress from degree to degree in Preston Webb. At least in my jurisdiction, the only exception would be the catechism of the Sublime 3rd degree, which the new Master Mason only need be examined on if he so wishes, ie its optional One thing in my jurisdiction that I dont care for is the allowance for the short form catechism. Under this regulation, the candidate may answer only 11 questions (the first 11, not 11 random questions) in order to be considered proficient. Ive never liked this option and like it even less so when I saw a candidate for Fellowcraft being tested on his Entered Apprentice catechism who could barely stumble his way through the first 11 answers. Somehow, he managed to be judged as proficient by the then acting WM. I was shocked when I first saw the lack of proficiency and then was literally almost brought to tears at the extent of the dumbing down of Freemasonry in the United States. Next thing we know, the only question will be "Is this of your own free will and accord?"
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Post by magusmasonica on Dec 8, 2009 4:29:41 GMT
In some mainstream jurisdictions no memory work is required. For an example under the GL of WA the only requirement is an open book test.
Not sure what this has to do with Emulation ritual though ;D
IMHO Emulation is a nice ritual. Not my favorite but out of all of the "Anglo Saxon" Masonic rituals it may be the best.
Love and Light,
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Post by lauderdale on Dec 8, 2009 9:25:23 GMT
By and large in UGLE, and GL of Scotland as far as I am aware, a lot of importance is placed in Memorising the Ritual, this would seem to me to be a common requirement in Anglo-Saxon Freemasonry. In Francophone Freemasonry from what I have encountered understanding of the Ritual is more important. I have to say that I am NOT a supporter of Memorisation personally and I see it as a stumbling block to Freemasonry and not having any benefits.
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reprobatus
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Lapis Reprobatus Caput Anguli
Posts: 42
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Post by reprobatus on Dec 8, 2009 10:34:13 GMT
IMHO there is no dichotomy between memorisation and understanding. I have witnessed brethren reading the ritual who clearly did not understand the words they were speaking; on the other hand, purely from my own experience, I find it impossible to memorise anything unless I understand it first.
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Post by lauderdale on Dec 8, 2009 11:49:18 GMT
I do not agree. I have seen the "Frere Jacques" effect on quite a few occasions where someone had learned the words of a piece of Ritual "parrot fashion" and had no idea of some of the words they had spoken. I was even asked in the bar after a Meeting what one of the words meant that the Brother had so perfectly repeated in the Temple. This to me is like the child who learns "Frere Jacques" at school and sings it beautifuly but when asked what the song is about replied "I don't know. It was in French".
Of course there are Brethren who do understand what they have learned and repeated, but I can only go on my own experiences and observations. As others no doubt have read on past threads here and on other Masonic Fora, Memorisation does nothing for me and I view it as an unneeded obstacle and would rather that Ritual was read well, with feeling and understanding then memoried without this or even worse stumbled and bumbled with many prompts .
I realise that this is at present a minority opinion amongst Freemasons but with the changes in modern practice elsewhere as rote learning dies out in schools etc and information is readily available,( e.g I can Google using my Blackberry - a device smaller than a packet of cigarettes) , I can envisage Freemasonry coming slowly but surely into line as people are simply not attuned to Rote Learning and cannot do it. To me this would be no loss at all. Let's face it, if the Pope can read the Mass from a Missal or cards etc, the Queen can read the Speech written for her in Parliament, then I think we can adapt to Ritual being well read and presented with drama and accuracy from a book or card.
Memorisation is to me a relic, a fond thing vainly invented, and should be allowed to die out.
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reprobatus
Member
Lapis Reprobatus Caput Anguli
Posts: 42
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Post by reprobatus on Dec 8, 2009 13:15:03 GMT
Bro. Lauderdale, I respect your opinion (and I suspect it won't be too long before it becomes the majority opinion), but I for one would be sorry to see memorisation die out. To me, it does serve a purpose, as it helps to inculcate the principles of Masonry. The fact that a Brother reads the ritual does not necessarily mean that he/she will understand it better (rather the reverse, I would suggest).
However, I am not by any means an advocate of memorisation in all cases: if a Brother finds it difficult, for whatever reason, to memorise ritual, I believe it is far better for him/her to read it than to stumble through it and have to be prompted every second word.
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Tamrin
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Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Dec 8, 2009 17:21:51 GMT
The lay-out of our Tracing Boards may be largely explained in terms of The Art of Memory, in which landscapes and architectural features served as prompts, as described by Frances A. Yates and others.
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bod
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UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on Dec 8, 2009 21:07:50 GMT
Memorisation is to me a relic, a fond thing vainly invented, and should be allowed to die out. A relic yes, but not invented, it was a necessity at one point in our history. I'm no great fan of ritual memorisation, but I do feel it serves a valuable purpose. We aren't always able to carry our ritual book around to seek guidance - but we can always have the ritual 'playing' in our heads.
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mre
Member
Posts: 17
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Post by mre on Dec 9, 2009 20:24:15 GMT
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Post by mcovey on Dec 11, 2009 0:51:42 GMT
mre, I suggest you relax and enjoy. Memroization whether required or not is nothing new to any adult.
For example, you ,now how to operate the can opener or the car each day without reading the directions.
Even two loges using the same ritual can run things entirely different. There are different 'accents' in each.
Good luck to you.
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Post by lauderdale on Dec 11, 2009 11:27:34 GMT
The difference is that as long as the can gets opened nobody is going to comment in exactly how you hold it or how you turn the handle or even if you use an old style opener or one of the more modern types or even an electric one. Likewise unless you are involved in a Road Traffic Accident then the style of your driving, where you place your hands on the steering wheel, whether you reverse into a parking spot or chose one where you can drive forward into, is nobody's concern but your own. Contrast that with delivering a piece of Ritual at a Lodge Meeting where there are plenty of King Tuts ready to comment on the use of and instead of also, prior to instead of previously etc, and where "back seat drivers" are waiting to jump in with a prompt even when unasked.
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Post by Siontific on Dec 11, 2009 11:56:09 GMT
I'm very much in favour of memorisation. I think it adds a sense of achievement to the performance of the ritual and helps understanding, especially if you have a good Lodge of Instruction. As for the "King Tuts". Tell them to shutup. It is not acceptable, even in UGLE Lodges, to have pompous idiots spoiling the ceremony in the background. The Ritual is not there to be performed perfectly. In part, it is there for the development of individuals, in more ways than one. It is for the experienced Members to help, advise and assist the newer Members, or those who find performance difficult, so all can experience the benefit of being part of the ceremony.
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Post by whistler on Dec 11, 2009 19:24:03 GMT
I'm very much in favour of memorisation. I think it adds a sense of achievement to the performance of the ritual and helps understanding, especially if you have a good Lodge of Instruction. As for the "King Tuts". Tell them to shutup. It is not acceptable, even in UGLE Lodges, to have pompous idiots spoiling the ceremony in the background. The Ritual is not there to be performed perfectly. In part, it is there for the development of individuals, in more ways than one. It is for the experienced Members to help, advise and assist the newer Members, or those who find performance difficult, so all can experience the benefit of being part of the ceremony. I like to always remember that an initiation, passing, or raising - are ceremonies for the candidiate not the ego of those providing the work of the ritual. Of course if somebody is capable of learning, remembering and delivering well that is excellent. If a Bro is not capable , the Bro, owes it to the candidate to deliver it in the best way possible. As for the Gray Warblers in the East - they only devalue themselves when they start muttering - In our Lodges the only one who should correct/assist is the Director of Ceremonies. Oh and yes we do have Gray warblers Just been thinking about my post further - In my view, In our ritual and workings - Deacons must learn much of their ritual words, as there is not an opportunity for them to hold rubrics and read from them, and for each of the other offices certain set pieces need to be learned for the same reason. The learning task are not as difficult as it may seem to a beginner - Masonic ritual has a certain rhythm. In our Lodge in normal times it takes over 2 years to become a Master - then to start climbing the ladder starting with the office of Inner Guard a Year in each office - so there would be 3 or 4 years Masonry before the real learning begins - by which time a Bro has seen the same ceremonies on many occasions
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Post by mcovey on Dec 13, 2009 19:43:55 GMT
The difference is that as long as the can gets opened nobody is going to comment in exactly how you hold it or how you turn the handle or even if you use an old style opener or one of the more modern types or even an electric one. Likewise unless you are involved in a Road Traffic Accident then the style of your driving, where you place your hands on the steering wheel, whether you reverse into a parking spot or chose one where you can drive forward into, is nobody's concern but your own. Contrast that with delivering a piece of Ritual at a Lodge Meeting where there are plenty of King Tuts ready to comment on the use of and instead of also, prior to instead of previously etc, and where "back seat drivers" are waiting to jump in with a prompt even when unasked. But not giving a piece word for word is not giving the piece. It must be memorized word for word. However the accent can be different. One brings their own energies into the ritual intended or not. The King Tuts as you put them need to remind themselves of their true Masonic conduct. This is why I say relax.
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Post by mcovey on Dec 13, 2009 19:53:33 GMT
I'm very much in favour of memorisation. I think it adds a sense of achievement to the performance of the ritual and helps understanding, especially if you have a good Lodge of Instruction. As for the "King Tuts". Tell them to shutup. It is not acceptable, even in UGLE Lodges, to have pompous idiots spoiling the ceremony in the background. The Ritual is not there to be performed perfectly. In part, it is there for the development of individuals, in more ways than one. It is for the experienced Members to help, advise and assist the newer Members, or those who find performance difficult, so all can experience the benefit of being part of the ceremony. I like to always remember that an initiation, passing, or raising - are ceremonies for the candidiate not the ego of those providing the work of the ritual. Of course if somebody is capable of learning, remembering and delivering well that is excellent. If a Bro is not capable , the Bro, owes it to the candidate to deliver it in the best way possible. As for the Gray Warblers in the East - they only devalue themselves when they start muttering - In our Lodges the only one who should correct/assist is the Director of Ceremonies. Oh and yes we do have Gray warblers Just been thinking about my post further - In my view, In our ritual and workings - Deacons must learn much of their ritual words, as there is not an opportunity for them to hold rubrics and read from them, and for each of the other offices certain set pieces need to be learned for the same reason. The learning task are not as difficult as it may seem to a beginner - Masonic ritual has a certain rhythm. In our Lodge in normal times it takes over 2 years to become a Master - then to start climbing the ladder starting with the office of Inner Guard a Year in each office - so there would be 3 or 4 years Masonry before the real learning begins - by which time a Bro has seen the same ceremonies on many occasions I am in total agreement with you. I suggest that all the officers should memorize their rolls. I see obvious differences in officers and years to become a Master. Your process intrigues me. I think that we do have a benefit that there are not as many years between initiation and Master so that a member can participate in ceremonies and meetings on all three levels of learning. I am very glad our meetings are not just business meetings as some are. Seeing your posts makes me very glad that our lodge is not the only one brining the mysteries back into the ritual. We have reinstituted our education nights for discussion on topics involving the hidden mysteries. It seems by doing so, our lodge has entered a growing phase once again.
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Post by magusmasonica on Dec 13, 2009 22:12:49 GMT
I will be attending a lodge in Mexico in the winter where everything is read. Should be interesting as I have never witnessed such a thing before. Love and Light,
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