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Post by billmcelligott on Apr 3, 2011 21:02:48 GMT
One more stupid and irrelevant comment and your gone.
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Post by vajranagini on Apr 3, 2011 21:40:14 GMT
Yes, of course, Brother Bill.
We were talking about OTO, were we not? I remember attending at least two OTO Bacchanals; they were very well done, with costumes and masks and all the trimmings, actually! We even had a real 'mountain' on which to perform them! That night I stayed up all night waiting to see the Dog Star rise at dawn...
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Post by rembrandt on Apr 3, 2011 22:08:02 GMT
You would be well served to pay attention to what MadDervish has to say on this topic and others in which he has a high degree of expertise.
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Post by vajranagini on Apr 3, 2011 22:36:59 GMT
Well, HERE I AM, "paying attention"... but unfortunately he hasn't been BACK HERE yet. Wonder what HE would have to say about "qarael"....?
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Post by jayman on Apr 4, 2011 1:07:21 GMT
Well, HERE I AM, "paying attention"... but unfortunately he hasn't been BACK HERE yet. Wonder what HE would have to say about "qarael"....? Respect is a two way street
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Post by vajranagini on Apr 4, 2011 2:58:39 GMT
i have always respected what Dion Fortune-perhaps you've heard of her?- had to say on the subject of Geburah, the Holy Fifth Sephirah on the Tree of Life. Note the references to 'respect":
"'Chesed, the king on his throne, may win our love; but it is Geburah, the king in his chariot going forth to war, that commands our respect.
Sufficient justice has not been done to the part played by the sentiment of respect in the emotion of love.
We have a kind of love for the person who can "put the fear of God into us", should occasion arise, which is of quite a different quality, is far more steadfast and permanent, and curiously enough, far more emotionally satisfying, than the love with which no tinge of awe is mingled.
It is Geburah that supplies the element of awe, of the "fear of the Lord which is the beginning of wisdom", and of a general wholesome respect which helps us to keep to the straight and narrow way and calls forth our better nature, because we know our sins will find us out.. Dion Fortune in the chapter on Geburah in her book "The Mystical Qabalah"
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Post by maat on Apr 4, 2011 4:36:36 GMT
"What you do unto others will be done unto you" & "What you do unto others you do unto yourself". These words probably should cause fear in most of us imperfect beings who have occasion or regular lapses of good judgement. 'Tis the unwavering Law of Cause and Effect we should fear. When we respect that law, and gain an understanding of it's implications then we begin to become wise.
I like to think that respect built on Love (non emotional) for one's fellow beings (Sons of God) will override the respect built on fear. "Love God and love your neighbour as your Self" the Volume of Sacred Law tells us are the only two laws we need. All other being condensed into them.
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Post by jayman on Apr 4, 2011 9:58:41 GMT
Well said, Maat. Thank you
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Post by vajranagini on Apr 4, 2011 17:11:44 GMT
"What you do unto others will be done unto you" & "What you do unto others you do unto yourself". These words probably should cause fear in most of us imperfect beings who have occasion or regular lapses of good judgement. 'Tis the unwavering Law of Cause and Effect we should fear. When we respect that law, and gain an understanding of it's implications then we begin to become wise. I like to think that respect built on Love (non emotional) for one's fellow beings (Sons of God) will override the respect built on fear. "Love God and love your neighbour as your Self" the Volume of Sacred Law tells us are the only two laws we need. All other being condensed into them. Well. that's fine, I suppose, if one subscribes to exoteric doctrines; if one doesn't, then the sentiment extends only to the "love of God". The Bhagavad-Gita states plainly that once one has attained Divine communion then all scriptures become irrelevant. "As a well of water becomes useless when water everywhere overflows, so become the scriptures to the Seer of the All." One becomes a "law unto oneself" once the Abyss has been crossed; this is quite likely the 'secret" that got Mansur El-Hallaj into trouble, since exoteric religions that are predicated on mental enslavement and indoctrination of the masses hate nothing more than anyone "slipping their nooses"... There is also a school of Sufi thought known as the "Malamati", said to be very similar to Freemasonry, whose methods I have found useful; if MadDervish returns perhaps he can tell you about it and its particular approach...
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Post by maat on Apr 5, 2011 0:09:47 GMT
Well. that's fine, I suppose, if one subscribes to exoteric doctrines; if one doesn't, then the sentiment extends only to the "love of God". The Bhagavad-Gita states plainly that once one has attained Divine communion then all scriptures become irrelevant. "As a well of water becomes useless when water everywhere overflows, so become the scriptures to the Seer of the All." One becomes a "law unto oneself" once the Abyss has been crossed; this is quite likely the 'secret" that got Mansur El-Hallaj into trouble, since exoteric religions that are predicated on mental enslavement and indoctrination of the masses hate nothing more than anyone "slipping their nooses"... If revealing the secret got Mansur El-Hallaj into such great trouble why do you think you might be exempt from the same fate? Exoteric religions and esoteric belief systems are equally liable to mentally enslave and indoctrinate people. That is why we should listen to all then take what we learn to the threshing floor. The earnest seeker will find that help comes from hidden quarters which will facilitate sorting the wheat from the chaff.
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Post by vajranagini on Apr 5, 2011 1:24:35 GMT
Are you at all familiar with the saying "preaching to the clergy"?
Hey, look at that: this "hit" of mine was #1418! I love when that happens; I once left an OTO event and got on Subway car #1156 and followed that with a stint on Streetcar #4180.
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Post by maat on Apr 5, 2011 3:26:22 GMT
Love that post Anubis! Just because St Whoever said something does not make it true or wise. (It turns our St Christopher didn't even possess a mouth - he was a figment of someone's imagination).
And how come we believe God spoke to people way back when..but riducule anyone who tells us that God spoke to them today?
Are some things safer at a distance?
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Post by vajranagini on Apr 5, 2011 3:53:23 GMT
You'd almost think so, wouldn't you?
When Narendranath Datta (later known as Swami Vivekananda) met Shri Ramakrishna for the first time, he asked him directly: "Can God be seen?"
RK replied :
"God can indeed be seen; in fact, at this very moment I see God more clearly than I see you!
But who wants to see God? People shed gallons of tears for their families and their possessions, but who weeps for God? When you want to see God so badly that the tears flow from your eyes, then you shall indeed see Him very soon!"
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Post by nventr on Apr 5, 2011 5:58:58 GMT
Love that post Anubis! Just because St Whoever said something does not make it true or wise. (It turns our St Christopher didn't even possess a mouth - he was a figment of someone's imagination). And how come we believe God spoke to people way back when..but riducule anyone who tells us that God spoke to them today? Are some things safer at a distance? God does speak to us today. The wise don't speak of it. They exemplify it.
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Post by rembrandt on Apr 5, 2011 21:57:49 GMT
I am sure that MadDervish could speak to you on any matter relating to Sufism and he could do so from a position of direct experience instead of books and conjecture. I don't know why he hasn't returned here. I do know that I should call him back though.
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Post by jayman on Apr 5, 2011 23:19:08 GMT
I am sure that MadDervish could speak to you on any matter relating to Sufism and he could do so from a position of direct experience instead of books and conjecture. I don't know why he hasn't returned here. I do know that I should call him back though. Perhaps the brick wall he is speaking to does a better job of listening.
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Post by vajranagini on Apr 6, 2011 1:06:45 GMT
I am sure that MadDervish could speak to you on any matter relating to Sufism and he could do so from a position of direct experience instead of books and conjecture. I don't know why he hasn't returned here. I do know that I should call him back though. Well, I hope you will, and that he will return; I do in fact have Sufi-related questions to ask him.
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Post by vajranagini on Apr 6, 2011 1:09:12 GMT
Love that post Anubis! Just because St Whoever said something does not make it true or wise. (It turns our St Christopher didn't even possess a mouth - he was a figment of someone's imagination). And how come we believe God spoke to people way back when..but riducule anyone who tells us that God spoke to them today? Are some things safer at a distance? God does speak to us today. The wise don't speak of it. They exemplify it. Exactly right. And 'the wise' also KNOW that "God' has MANY FORMS, some WRATHFUL and some "peaceful", and they may exemplify THOSE , too!
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Post by vajranagini on Apr 6, 2011 4:48:19 GMT
Has anyone seen the new movie "Unmistaken Child"? This documentary of the actual search, by the disciple of a deceased lama successfully tracking down his master's reborn self, and what appeared to be actual footage of the child lama interacting with the Dalai Lama; the images of the year-old child leaning forward to put prayer scarves around the necks of the faithful struck me to the heart as few such images have; as did the emotions on the faces of the child's parents when asked if they would surrender their child to the monastery...
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Post by nventr on Apr 6, 2011 19:20:04 GMT
God does speak to us today. The wise don't speak of it. They exemplify it. Exactly right. And 'the wise' also KNOW that "God' has MANY FORMS, some WRATHFUL and some "peaceful", and they may exemplify THOSE , too! It is the overall goal of the path to first identify the energies (2, 4, 5, 7, or 12 depending on the religion) and then balance them. A fully integrated personality combines all the energies and archetypes within the personality. This is what makes one whole or Holy. This gives them the ability to bring out the needed energies for specific tasks while leaving all the other energies back in the barn. The dual deities are formed from pure energies. This means they are unbalanced. All myth about these dualities revolve around either how they were created (i.e. The R@pe of Medusa) or how they can be returned to balance (i.e. Ra making red beer to put the raging Sekhmet to sleep/rest/peace). What is really scary here is that a spiritual student whose first lesson is self-reflection cannot see the unbalanced state that is being expressed. May Peace be with you sister and may Grace cool the fires within your soul.
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