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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 6, 2011 9:02:00 GMT
Brother Bill, honestly, I was trying to be good and you followed right up with your disagreement...and I never used the "not worthy" phrase. If it makes you happy, then flush everything I wrote Why should we do that, it is perfectly acceptable, I just did not agree. Is that not what an open forum is about ? I am in no way mad or upset, just setting out the other opinion that is all. I can assure you nothing written here or elsewhere is personal, just an opinion on a subject. Whenever anyone posts an opinion they should be prepared to take on board another opinion. If we all agreed just think how boring it would get. I an never boring, I hope. Oh hell, I am boring That dance will get you every time.
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frater209
Member
per mediam noctis ad solem
Posts: 19
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Post by frater209 on Oct 6, 2011 9:55:45 GMT
I too would offer apologies if I have been rude. It was never my intention to do so, of course, but I know I can be a very confrontational person. This thread grabbed me from the get go. It was certainly not my original intention to be talking about Baphomet, nor to use a version of Baphomet as my avatar, but I said to myself, "If I'm going to embrace this topic I'm not going to hold back." Fractal, in response to your question I must say that in my opinion, no one is trying to add to Masonry. I'm certainly not suggesting that Baphomet should be a part of Masonry's symbols/rituals/teachings in any way whatsoever. What is important to me is promoting not the symbol itself, but a certain attitude toward symbols in general. Aristotle said something to the effect of, "It is the mark of an intelligent mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Now we have talked a lot about what outsiders think about Freemasonry and about what sort of face we should present to the world. But if we dogmatically refuse to publicly engage conversation about a mere symbol, whether our hesitance be a fear of persecution or simply groupthink, what face are we presenting to the world then? The face of ignorance. To the extent that there does exist a religious war in the world of ideas, what are we saying to the world if we allow their oppression to dictate what we think and say? "I surrender. I will submit to your oppression." Masonry teaches us to cheerfully adhere to the laws and customs of our respective countries, which we do. It does not tell us to be silent about what is right and wrong, which we won't. These are some reasons I have embraced this Baphomet thread, but there are deeper and more important reasons why it's important to me personally. Masonry is, first and foremost, a Mystery School which intends to effect within its members the true and inner spiritual initiation. We do a disservice to Masonry, all its brethren, and to humanity as a whole when we forget, deny, or neglect this important function. We've spoken of the path our "ancient brothers" walked. But the truth is we don't know anything about Masonry before the time of Ashmole. Historical precedence up to that point remains speculation. The Grand Lodge of Texas AF&AM suggests possible "roots" of Freemasonry in the following 2 quotes, from introduction to the monitor: "Such ceremonies and their correlated teachings have sometimes been referred to as the Mysteries of Masonry, with the same signification employed when one speaks of the "Mysteries of the Magi", the "Mysteries of Osiris;" the "Grecian Mysteries of Eleusis," and other kindred rites, practiced in the temples of initiation throughout the ancient world." "The presence in the modern Masonic system, of many emblems, symbols and allegories of the ancient Temples of Initiation, as well as certain rites performed therein, has persuaded the most learned among Masonic scholars to conclude that Masonry is of very ancient origin, and is, in some aspects, the modern successor of, and heir to, the sublime Mysteries of the Temple of Solomon, and of the Temples of India, Chaldea, Egypt, Greece, and Rome, as well as the basic doctrine of the Essenes, Gnostics and other mystic orders." Masonry is a school of initiation and in my experience initiation requires the dissolution of old, habitual patterns of thinking and reacting to the world, so that we may grow into more perfect and complete ways of doing the same. The old and imperfect temple must be razed so that a more beautiful one may be erected in its place. This is a constant process. There is absolutely nothing extant which we shouldn't be able to apply to our Work, by gleaning the truth from the dross of outmoded ideas, and proceeding without prejudice to find value in all things. For as Huw signs each of his posts, "its the similarities that make it freemasonry!" We have spoken of common sense, but that is something we can find anywhere. I would prefer to see Masonry promote that special sort of un-common sense which is the trademark of truly exceptional individuals. Not that I am one.... but we're all here for self improvement in Masonry. When we fail to promote attitudes, ideas, and atmosphere conducive to initiation we have failed ourselves, and the incoming seekers. We have demonstrated that the majority of people aren't going to resonate well with the Baphomet symbol. But there may be that one initiate, like myself for instance, who may be able to use that symbol to come to a better understanding of what Masonry is getting on about, even though that symbol isn't Masonic in and of itself. And if we only meet one such unique initiate in our lives, yet we deny and suppress any initiatic (and therefore Masonic) significance of the symbol, then we have failed that Brother or Sister. Anyways these are just my opinions, but I do find value in Baphomet's symbolism, and am preparing some ideas for another couple posts to further discuss at least 2 aspects of it. Thanks for listening. --Fr. 209
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Post by middlepillar on Oct 6, 2011 10:24:06 GMT
Bill
It is the red and white background that makes it so recognisable as The Nazi Swastika, take away the colour and it does not have the same effect. I can not agree that the Nazi sign is only recognisable on a red background. The symbol is associated with what was done I just don't see the red has much significance.
Bill, I did not say it was only the colour I said it made it easier without the colour it does not have the same effect a big difference!
Like it or not we live in a world that has views and opinions some of which we might not like to follow, however we are not the Majority. If we as a group do not pay attention to the wider world is that not arrogance ?
Why should it be arrogance? That may be your opinion and that is fair enough. I am happy for the outside world to have any view they wish of us, the only ones I personally will help see the truth are those that are bothered to look for it, I dont consider it arrogance just selective and we all do that in some way or another
OK , you line up all the people who see the Baphomet as a symbol for goos on the left, I will line up all the people who see it as evil on the right - bet my gang is a lot bigger than your gang.
Bill this is where you are so wrong! It is not about good and bad, right or wrong, it is about opinion! You state in this Forum that everyone can express thier view and then wish to compress this argument into an us v them! It is not about that, it is about the several shades of Grey, the fact that most of the shading is dark is irrelevant it is about listening and accepting that others see something else and those people are not trying to bring down freemasonry just explore a symbol
It is easy to become emotive in discussions but going back to your two photos if you had put both crosses with a white and red background most people would relate them to the Nazis, if you just had them say in orange next to each other you could of easily been discussing Fylfot crosses and thier meaning with no emotive reactions at all. Sorry , just do not agree, most people have never heard of anything other than it is the symbol for the Nazi Party. red, blue , green it makes no difference.
I will challenge you then right now, go out into the street and ask the first five people what is Flyfot ?? answers on a postcard to .....
Then surely now you know that there are several meanings attached to the cross we should be educating those that are ignorant? Or is it just 'arrogance' to think they would never understand? Surely it is better to educate people who wish to be educated rather than behave like the Christian Missionaries of yesteryear?
I am sorry a man will nerver give up smoking until he accepts he needs to and really wants it. You will never educate the Anti Masons because they do not want it. And those that arent bothered arent bothered, why is it arrogant to only want to be inclusive?
Bill, You know I love you but there are some things that you and me will never agree on, but thats what makes it so great!
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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 6, 2011 14:29:06 GMT
author=middlepillar board=General thread=6890 post=90916 time=1317896646 You posted before
Maybe my grasp of the English language in not great but it seems like this says - "the Nazi sign is only recognisable on a red background" but if that is not right then I apologise. But I keep reading the sentence and it seems pretty close.
You made two comments 1* I do not agree that we should worry about what the outside world thinks 2* it is one of the main reasons Freemasonry has lost some of its mysticism too much appeasement is not good
Again sorry if I misunderstand but if a person/group does not care what others think and they are diminishing a group through appeasement ??
Mirriam Websters definition is:- : an attitude of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or in presumptuous claims or assumptions Dictionary.com :- offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.
Well then where does my area of grey come into this equation. Is my opinion less valuable than others, if I say nothing even though I have facts to place here, should I remain silent.
Should I fear upsetting others because I dare to voice my view ? The others do not seem to worry about having views opposite to mine.
Or do we just leave the mystics in the corner to play on their own.
I have accused no one of anything I have just stated facts as i see them and opinion that I have. Those who wish to have opposite views are free to have them as I have stated thousands of times over the years.
I see it in simple terms , it is the shape and nothing to do with colours. I could be wrong, but then so could you.
Is that not what we are doing here, educating those that read this forum, new Masons of all orders. If however they just read one opinion or one style or one philosophy, where is education then ??
Now if as you say , I am wrong, I suspect you would have been out the door taking in my challenge to prove me wrong. My view would be that 9 out of 10 have never heard of the Flyfot 9 out of 10 have never heard of the Baphomet and about 7 out of 10 have no idea what a Freemason is.
For the 9,999th time I do not get emotional or annoyed I just have an opinion.
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Post by middlepillar on Oct 6, 2011 15:06:37 GMT
Bill
This is now taking it away from what was intended so I will stop, however please look at whay you wrote above, I did not write; "the Nazi sign is only recognisable on a red background"
I wrote; "It is the red and white background that makes it so recognisable as The Nazi Swastika, take away the colour and it does not have the same effect."
The red and white make it far more recognisable than just a plain cross- there plain English.
I always feel that when we resort to nit picking others words we are scraping the barrel, I believe you know what I mean. I am enjoying this thread, I have not said anywhere people cannot have opinions, unfortunately my attempt to point out it is not an us and them issue or right or wrong issue just opinions, seems to of failed.
Lastly, for someone who has spent as much time writing on these Forums as you have I am surprised that you dont recognise that all writing has emotion to it, whether you are just expressing an opinion or not, I have yet to meet anyone who writes on these boards without emotion at all, and you in my opinion are no different. I have tried to offer an honest opinion no doubt you will see the emotion behind it?
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Post by matt on Oct 6, 2011 16:51:44 GMT
Baphomet could never have been part of original masonry - why change masonry by adding to it what obviously is a controversial topic even amongst us masons. We don't actually know that. I'm not saying that it was. But masonry's origins are to a large part elusive. Perhaps intentionally to offer the historian an opportunity to open up to the Mystery. I'm certainly not trying to change or add anything to masonry. The only thing really being defended here is the ability to interpret symbols and discuss those interpretations without being shut down by other brothers. Masonry thrives on the free exchange of ideas, regardless of how ludicrous some may consider those ideas to be. Didnt you bring this up by starting the thread? hehe ;D I think it's quite appropriate to discuss in lodge. As has been shown and is continuing to be shown, the symbolic significance of baphomet can contain parallels to the symbols of masonry. If brothers were to enter into discussion without an attitude of "these ideas are ok, those ideas are wrong" then literally anything could be discussed in lodge. Our lodges could cultivate a fertile ground for ideas to grow. When someone offers an interpretation, if we disagree we can simply let it go, or perhaps look deeper to see how their point of view might compliment ours. If not, we just keep going without telling that brother they are wrong, or even encourage them to continue developing those ideas. Hunreds of times since becoming a mason discussions like these have enriched me and made my masonic journey more fruitful. We could be thinking in terms of a spirit of tolerance and the encouragement of individual growth. This encourages exploration and seeking, as opposed to assuming we already have all the answers, or that there is only 1 real absolute and concrete answer that we must pin down. This does exist in some fellowships of masons, but it's much more rare than it could be. If we can honestly admit that we dont have all the answers, then we can be open to seemingly opposing view points. This is a very masonic ideal! Harmonizing apparent opposites. If we insist that we've already got it figured out, then we'll remain stagnant and possibly hinder the growth of others that we influence. The war machine you mention was formed from an us vs. them mentality where one interpretation of scripture was deemed "right" and all others "wrong". Let's keep that from happening in Masonry. The "Us vs. Them" mentality is much more destructive to the craft than anything that might appear on an anti-mason site or published in a tabloid. TGAOTU is most fully understood through relationship. We then develop a perspective based on our experiences. Any human understanding of the infinite and eternal is limited and therefore is not "pure". This is not to say that we can not experience the pureness of Deity, we inded can and do. Masonry admonishes us to pray constantly, before everything we do. But then, our rational mind begins to form constructs that classify that experience. We each create different forms based on our subjective experience with the Divine. We can not allow any one person to impose that form onto any other. We must allow each individual to experience that on his own and allow them to share that experience without ridicule. Perhaps there's something to learn from other people's perspective if we get it out of our head that they are wrong, or that they even could be. Masonry creates very broad forms, or vessels that allow masonic Light, or the Divine, to express itself. Behind these forms is an infinite force that can not be reduced to words. Masonry points at the Divine with our symbols. This is why masonry does not make things concrete. Symbols are portals that open up to the infinite mysterious force, Masonic Light. To paraphrase Dion Fortune (a Co-Mason), as I pointed out earlier, there are a great many symbols which are used as objects of meditation; the Cross in Christendom; the God-forms in the Egyptian system; phallic symbols in other faiths. These symbols are used by the uninitiated as a means of concentrating the mind and introducing into it certain thoughts, calling up certain associated ideas, and stimulating certain feelings. But we cant stop there, as we would then be limited only to what we think some originator might have thought the symbol means. It becomes concrete and is only a shell, a form, which will die. We're trying to get to the life inside the symbol, that is eternal. There is no "right" and "wrong" way to interpret a symbol. There is much more to logic than simply either/or. There are varying shades of Light that exist between Light and dark. There are beautiful blues and purples, greens and reds...etc We use a composite symbol or symbol-system; a symbol which is an unattached unit would not serve our full purpose. In contemplating a composite symbols we observe that there are definite relations between its parts. There are some parts of which we know something, using the ritual and lectures as the "known"; there are others of which we can intuit something, or, more crudely, make a guess, reasoning from first principles. The mind leaps from one known to another known and in so doing traverses certain distances, metaphorically speaking; it is like we are travelers in the desert and know the situation of two oases and we begin a journey between them. We would never have dared to push out into the desert from the first oasis if we didn't know the location of the second; but at the end of this journey we not only know much more about the characteristics of the second oasis, but we have also observed the country lying between them. Thus, making forced marches from oasis to oasis, backwards and forwards across the desert, we gradually explore it; nevertheless, the desert is incapable of supporting life. So it is with the symbols of Masonry. The things it renders (the nature of Deity, Masonic Light) is unthinkable and yet the mind, tracking from symbol to symbol, manages to think about the infinite; and although we have to be content to see in a glass darkly, we have every reason to hope that ultimately we shall see face to face and know even as we are known; for the human mind grows by exercise, and that which was at first was unthinkable as mathematics to the child who cannot manage his sums, finally comes within the range of our realisation. By thinking about a thing, we build concepts of it.
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Post by matt on Oct 6, 2011 17:32:48 GMT
As a side note, Baphomet has been connected to the Assassins led by Saladin as a corruption of Muhammed. Here's what Nietzche says about the assassins.
"When the Christian crusaders in the Orient came across that invincible order of Assassins – that order of free spirits par excellence whose lowest order received, through some channel or other, a hint about that symbol and spell reserved for the uppermost echelons alone, as their secret: "nothing is true, everything is permitted". Now that was freedom of the spirit, with that, belief in truth itself was renounced."
Masonry provides it's symbols as a guide to the unknown, not concrete facts. It matters not what any originator intended a specific symbol to mean. I would argue they developed masonry with such a broad brush to make this very point. It's for the individual to explore and create their own "truth". That's freedom of thought, and we embrace both freedom of thought and freedom of speech. So much so that many of us have vowed in various degrees to defend both, even if we have to die doing so.
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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 6, 2011 17:42:50 GMT
middlepiller
If anyone thinks that after all these years I would have kept my sanity if I allowed emotions to drive what I do. They are the crazy ones.
When what I say is not believed, hence my integrity is questioned, it is time to bow out.
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Post by fractal3rd on Oct 7, 2011 7:21:23 GMT
Hello... wow lotsa emotions and lack of emotions huh? Guys it has been a cool discussion maybe we must agree to diss-agree on some points thats what makes humans.Thats cool. Anyhow, in an effort to be super human and right, I shall prove... lol just kidding...
Sorry I am unsure how to create the quote above and I too lazy to go read about it now... But I said... "Baphomet could never have been part of original masonry - why change masonry by adding to it what obviously is a controversial topic even amongst us masons." Then Matt said... "We don't actually know that. I'm not saying that it was. But masonry's origins are to a large part elusive. Perhaps intentionally to offer the historian an opportunity to open up to the Mystery. I'm certainly not trying to change or add anything to masonry."
Actually we can be really certain that the Baphomet symbol is a recent development and as such was not crafted into ritual or the gothic temples or buildings constructed by masons. There is no evidence to prove otherwise... Since the word does not appear in any ritual, I am told - then it is perhaps safe to say it was not meditated upon by the ancients.
Like, I agree with most all you have said in that looong post but I can't believe that out ancient brothers left everything up to the initiate to interpret - there must be an original meaning to everything taught - now I am not saying that one can't have their own belief or thought. And we must talk about new things we find associated with masonry like Baphomet ¡V but it was not an original teaching and if this sort of discussion were to break out at lodge will it remove the serene energy we strived to create in the first place that¡¦s why I think it should be discussed over tea or over a beer after lodge. Just an opinion. (Don¡¦t shoot for it ƒº) My point is Baphomet can be a part of the mason¡¦s belief and values but I don¡¦t think it was or should be part of Masonry¡K Many a Mason has ascended to the highest planes without Baphomet as an aid. This symbol is not an essential part or teaching to Masonry. So let us agree that it is part of the individual¡¦s belief and not part of Masonic belief per se¡¦. If it does become a Masonic teaching then we must entertain teachings of voodoo and Satanism by the same reasoning too¡K varying shades of Light and Dark right.
FYI if you ask any South African about the swastika (even the Hindus in SA who still paint it on their temples the opposite way around), the vast majority will identify it with the Nazi regime and nothing else ¡V I have asked a few people at work and they saw it as Nazi I drew it on paper without a background¡K
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Post by middlepillar on Oct 7, 2011 8:31:01 GMT
FYI if you ask any South African about the swastika (even the Hindus in SA who still paint it on their temples the opposite way around), the vast majority will identify it with the Nazi regime and nothing else ¡V I have asked a few people at work and they saw it as Nazi I drew it on paper without a background¡K Hi Fractal3rd Did you educate them to its other meanings or leave them in the dark? Very good post but then again I have enjoyed most of the posts on this thread!
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Post by fractal3rd on Oct 7, 2011 12:58:54 GMT
O! Gosh Middle Pillar - I left them in the dark - I am already a strange out of place Stats person in a Marketing environment - trying to pursuade ppl that the swastika should be seen for its original meaning, may mean eating lunch alone! I challange any white person to tatoo this on their arm and not get beaten up!
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Oct 11, 2011 19:56:53 GMT
Why must we become narcotized by false appearances and be so ignorant to take things at face-value? The hideous representation of Baphomet is a symbol of our ignorant notions of reality, as well as our false opinions regarding our place in G-d's Kingdom; this ignorance is the real devil. Only when we are ready to look in the mirror of the COR may we learn how to apply a setting maul to smooth our stone of those impediments that keep us chained to false illusions. Ultimately, by facing our fears, we can banish the Devil and his works. Baphomet only exists in the distorted realm of our twisted and distorted imagination. The illusion of materialism is a cause of our limitations. The inverted pentagram shows us that spirit can never become dominated by matter. The bondage of delusion is a consequence of mankind's erroneous interpretations of the nature of the physical universe; the hoofs, horns, and tails of the prisoners show that delusion beastializes us. False and even hideous appearances are necessary; and, to achieve our full stature as humans, we must be strong enough to pass the tests and trials of our Faith that are imposed upon us by these illusions. The Book of Job, as well as the Gospels, elaborate upon these lessons. The Bible warns against ignoring evil and denying its existence, that we shouldn't pretend. The Bible warns that we should not ascribe a separate existence to the Devil, or to give him power that is not his, and especially not to make of him into a second Deity opposed to G-d that somehow always wins the important battles. If we are to banish all evil from our existence, we must be able to face it without being afraid. Form necessitates limitation, and limitation is bondage. Our limitations provide the fuel for actions that spring us into taking action to free us from those appearances, to free us from those illusions. Once we realize this, we may experience joy, and laughter. Learn to laugh with G-d at false appearances. Laugh with G-d at the notion of a devil. The most effective resistance is ridicule. Laugh with G-d at the devil, and he, along with his evil angels, will run. Laugh at our own strutting and self-importance, laugh at the mumbo-jumbo of religious/political/extremist/esoteric fanaticism. Laugh with G-d at the cosmic spectacle of external illusions and appearances. The alternative is to be sadly content and stuck in the mire of our own ignorance beneath a dark cloak of self-importance and delusion. Hear, Hear! Wonderfully stated. Thank you Goat Rider.
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cwhite
Member
Too much attention to subtleties makes you oblivious to the obvious.
Posts: 55
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Post by cwhite on Nov 2, 2011 15:46:35 GMT
On the other side of the coin,
Baphomet could be a reverse composition of three abbreviations (as per Levi). Tem-oph-ab = Templi Ominum Pacis Hominum Abhas, meaning "the god of the temple of peace among all men".
or
Baphe-metis. Baphe meaning baptised, metis meaning wisdom, skill or craft.
or
In Egypt, Ba fa maat. Ba meaning soul/immortal essence. Fa meaning carry/born/lifted. Maat meaning order/justice/truth. "Immortal essence being lifted and born to order and truth".
or
If you apply the Atbash Cypher to Baphomet, "bet pe vav mem tav" turns into "shin vav pe yud alef", which means Sophia. Sophia in greek means wisdom. Sufis come from Sophia.
and
Abufihimat (baphomet) is the Sufi name for the "source of understanding".
and in closing,
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. Titus 1:15
And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. Mark 7:20
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Post by vajranagini on Nov 2, 2011 21:11:50 GMT
In the Confessions" Aleister Crowley actually asks an entity that he encounters how to spell "Baphomet" he said 'if you are who you claim to be you can tell me how to spell 'baphomet'! The spirit told him it was spelt "BAFUMITHR" That got me thinking that "Bapa-Mater could work out to be "Father-Mother", which is the big secret that was revealed to initiates: that God is both female and male. In India this deity was referred to as Shiva Ardhanarishvara ("The Half-Female Lord" )and was depicted as male on one side and female on the other. The statues of the mysterious deity Serapis were also said to display this peculiarity. Eliphas Levi talks about the "Adda-Nari", which is simply a corruption of Ardhanarishvara, of course.
It must be pointed out that the Baphomet is a very apt illustration of SATURN, which is known for its dual nature (the two-faced Janus was the deity of the opening of the year). Saturn is also the "Dweller on the Threshold" which must be propitiated before one can rise on the planes.
I have always thought also, that the baphomet could well be a crude depiction of an Egyptian deity like Amon Ra or Khnum, because of the torch between the horns like that of the Sun disk in a temple painting.
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Post by fractal3rd on Nov 3, 2011 6:09:49 GMT
Yes Alistair Crowley who was dubbed to be the most Evil man of the century by time magazine. Most masonic lodges will separate themselves entirely from him and his doctrine at the OTO. Asscoating him with Masonry is as damaging as associating Baphomet with it. But each to their own I guess - Just remeber if it wasn't in Masonry to begin with then don't add or subtract. There are eloborate ways to find god and simple ways to find God - Buddah and Jesus were all about simplicity and love not in the de-tail - but becomeing the de-head. Path of least resistance guys... Anyhoo, if you really think of it - God loves His people and it should be enough to call upon Him and He will answer you even in this 3rd dimension. But careful what name you call out cos thats what will contact you!
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cwhite
Member
Too much attention to subtleties makes you oblivious to the obvious.
Posts: 55
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Post by cwhite on Nov 3, 2011 16:13:58 GMT
I've heard some people make comparisons of Baphomet to Shiva's father-in-law Daksha....
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cwhite
Member
Too much attention to subtleties makes you oblivious to the obvious.
Posts: 55
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Post by cwhite on Nov 3, 2011 16:30:48 GMT
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Post by vajranagini on Nov 3, 2011 17:41:18 GMT
It's cerrtainly not impossible, of course, but unlikely. Nobody 'worshipped" Daksha.
Idries Shah's assertion that the likelihood of the baphomet being a tribal fetish of the Aniza ("Goat") tribe of Bedouins that was brought to Europe by the "Moors" sounds extremely plausible, as does his assertion that rites of witchcraft were based on the tribal rites of the Moorish Bedouins ("Saracens")who swept through Europe and settled in Spain, and then later were exiled when overthrown by Philip 11 in the fifteenth century.
The Spanish word "Bruja" ("witch") has Sufi connotations; this is all explained very lucidly in his book 'The Sufis". Definitely worth reading by all "Wiccans"
In my opinion, insufficient shrift has in fact been given to the tremendous influence that Moorish Spain must have had on the culture of Europe between the eighth and fifteenth centuries, thanks to the Catholic Church...how could Europe's proximity to one of the greatest and longest-lived civilizations known to man NOT have had an effect on it?
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Post by vajranagini on Nov 4, 2011 3:56:48 GMT
Sufi itself reached its full flowering in Moorish Spain, not Arabia as most people might assume. After the Moors were expelled, they would have had to cross Europe on foot back to the Middle Eastern lands. Some of them no doubt opted to stay behind in Europe and so would have spread their own personal methods of worship and philosophy among the communities; this is, no doubt, the reason for the proliferation of the cult of the Black Virgin.
If one simply interprets the image of the baphomet in terms of Qabalistic thought, it unquestionably refers to Saturn/Binah/Capricorn.
The Caduceus between the legs represents the rising of the kundalini; the breasts on the figure suggest motherhood and also the Sign opposite Capricorn on the Zodiacal Wheel, Cancer. The left side of the picture features a raised hand, the right side a lowered one. These mudras are very similar to the position of the hands of the Hindu verson of the Black Virgin in the form of the Hindu Kali ("Blackness"), who holds her hands in a similar position, one holding a severed head, and the other raised in a "fear not" gesture.
In Hindu planetary astrological tradition Saturn is the son of the Sun. But, in Qabalistic philosophy Saturn represents the Divine Feminine in the form of the matron/widow.. The goat symbolism stands for both old age (the past) and youth (The future) It is not for nothing that we speak of "Old Goats" and refer to children as "kids". Notice also the symbol of the waxing and waning of the moon illustrating the passage of time (the domain of Saturn, along with "Space")
It is true that only God is to be worshipped, but the notion of propitiation of the ancestors and the elemental forces is a useful one, since Saturn rules both past and future, and is the Lord of Karma. Propitiation is "giving the devil his due"; after all, if there were no evil then good could not exist. "The Devil" is the "Lord of the Material World"; thus he rules ferility and crops and end processes. The Roman deity Stercutius, who ruled privies and dung, was an aspect of Saturn who in another aspect is ha-satan, the Adversary, not of God, but of man....
Thus the baphomet image may be a representation of this idea which was used for the purpose of propitiation. This image falling into the hands of the uninitiate would unquestionably result in misinterpretation, and propitiatory rites would be mistaken for worshipful ones.
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Harmony
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The Craft ; 1241 & 1386 & 1706 (Hon) (SC). OSM - Polnoon Castle Conclave. HRA - Rockmount & Camphi
Posts: 337
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Post by Harmony on Nov 4, 2011 14:02:24 GMT
After the Moors were expelled, they would have had to cross Europe on foot back to the Middle Eastern lands. I woudl have thought that to be highly unlikely. Surely, they would have crossed to North Africa as they were pushed further and further south?
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