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Post by bradwatsonmiami on Nov 13, 2011 2:22:47 GMT
Modern Freemasonry seems to have appeared for the first time in England & Scotland in the 16th century. Its predecessors & influences were...
1. Guilds of Operative Masons 2. Knights Templar 3. Gnostic Christians 4. Jewish mystics: Kaballists & ancient builders of Solomon's Temple 5. Ancient mysteries of Druids, Egypt, Babylon, Sumeria, Persia, Greece, Roman, Scandinavian, Mayans, etc.
Do I need to tweak this list?
- Brad Watson, Miamiteacher 7seals.yuku.comRevelationRevealed.proboards.com
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Post by bradwatsonmiami on Mar 16, 2012 17:02:41 GMT
Comments?
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Post by beejay on Mar 23, 2013 22:29:25 GMT
The sons of the widow might have continued their own private groups
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 25, 2013 11:17:41 GMT
May I just correct that in case others [newbbies] may be misslead.
'Brothers to Hiram who was the a Widow's Son'
I find Hiram or Hurum to be the most interesting of the Grand Originals. Mostly because he was a commoner who found a place beside Kings.
Hiram , the symbolic representation that all men can be respected at the highest levels, if they conduct themselves in the right way.
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Post by beejay on Mar 25, 2013 22:19:49 GMT
In still earlier times Horus was the son of the Widow Isis "In Ancient Egypt he was known as "Heru" (sometimes Hor or Har), which is translated as "the distant one" or "the one on high"(from the preposition "hr" meaning "upon" or "above")." ancientegyptonline.co.uk/horus.htmlHorus was known as the Lord of Life after raising his deceased father. He had a band of followers ( brothers?) There is also an elder Horus "He was seen as a great falcon with outstretched wings whose right eye was the sun and the left one was the moon." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HorusIt all sounds rather Masonic
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Mar 26, 2013 9:49:32 GMT
It all sounds rather Masonic It all sounds rather Christian or like any one of a number of risen saviour cults (Krishna, Dionysus, Mithras, Mabon ap Modron, Thor, Quetzalcoatl, Papa Legba, Daramulum, etc., etc.).
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Post by billmcelligott on Mar 26, 2013 16:44:06 GMT
One of the fascinating things about Freemasonry is it is like clay, you can shape it and mould it to fit most anything.
And of course that is exactly what its originators wanted.
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Post by beejay on Mar 27, 2013 1:14:53 GMT
One of the fascinating things about Freemasonry is it is like clay, you can shape it and mould it to fit most anything. And of course that is exactly what its originators wanted. Or perhaps that is because the inheritors of Masonry had other ideas that they concealed within Masonry.
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Mar 27, 2013 7:12:24 GMT
Or perhaps that is because the inheritors of Masonry had other ideas that they concealed within Masonry. To whose instruction ought we turn in our endeavours to recover the genuine secrets: Our Pleiadian Brethren or the all-knowing Russtafari?
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Post by boreades on Apr 13, 2013 22:33:50 GMT
Re "Do I need to tweak this list?" Perhaps, just a little, by including - Euclid's 47th Proposition - Rosicrucian and Hermitic tradition upto the start of UGLE (Robert Fludd, Isaac Newton, John Dee, Francis Bacon, Elias Ashmole, etc) - "Modern" orders of Druids (which coexisted with early Freemasonry in Britain)
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Apr 14, 2013 10:01:56 GMT
Granted the Rosicrucian and hermetic influences prior to 1717 (but remember UGLE, as such, did not exist before to 1813).
Influences of "Modern" Druid orders would be anachronisms as they are all subsequent to Freemasonry (even subsequent to UGLE, as such).
How do you suppose Euclid's 47th Proposition (a.k.a. Pythagoras' theorem but known long before either Euclid or Pythagoras), as an abstract, mathematical equation, influenced Freemasonry? Would it not be more sensible to suppose that Freemasonry appropriated it as an emblem, as it did the all-seeing eye and the point within a circle.
If you wish to discuss any items in the original list please specify (but please bear-in-mind what we know of the author from his posts).
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Post by boreades on Apr 17, 2013 20:41:22 GMT
Re the Rosicrucian and hermetic influences prior to 1717 I think I was myself influenced 1) by the History of British Freemasonry 1425-2000 by Dr Andrew Prescott www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/prescott16.htmland 2) by Tobias Churton's books, such as "The Gnostics, The Golden Builders and The Gnostic Philosophy", and "Magus: The Invisible Life of Elias Ashmole "
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Tamrin
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Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Post by Tamrin on Apr 19, 2013 9:08:45 GMT
Re the Rosicrucian and hermetic influences prior to 1717 I think I was myself influenced 1) by the History of British Freemasonry 1425-2000 by Dr Andrew Prescott www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/prescott16.htmland 2) by Tobias Churton's books, such as "The Gnostics, The Golden Builders and The Gnostic Philosophy", and "Magus: The Invisible Life of Elias Ashmole " Both well esteemed scholars. Prescott makes an excellent case for the Scottish origins of modern Freemasonry. I have argued that the premier grand lodge was largely a joint French (Hugeunot) and Scottish project (bear-in-mind the Auld Allience) which happended to take place on English soil. For what we presage is not gross For we be brethren of the Rosie Cross; We have the Mason Word and second sight, Things for to come we can foretell aright.
Henry Adamson The Muses Threnodie Edinburgh, 1638
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Post by boreades on Mar 15, 2015 17:21:35 GMT
Found elsewhere: Thoth Hermes Trismegistus, before he was revered as a god, founded one of the greatest Egyptian Mystery Schools. He is reported to have received his wisdom while in meditative trances, and to have written over 40 books including the Emerald Tablet, The Book of Thoth and The Divine Pymander. The Book of Thoth was reserved for graduates of the Mystery School. After his deification, he was portrayed by the Egyptians as the moon god with the body of a man, head of an ibis, and a crescent moon over his head.Another of the schools was known as Royal School of the Master Craftsmen, which is immediately suggestive of a masonic connection. Based at Karnak, and founded by Pharaoh Thuthmosis III. “This school was also known as the Great White Brotherhood due to the members choice of raiment (white robes)” See: www.ancient-origins.net/history-famous-people/thoth-hermes-trismegistus-and-his-ancient-school-mysteries-002676
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Post by peter2 on Mar 16, 2015 2:13:48 GMT
Hermes, Hercules, Heru (Horus), Hiram. Why are the names so similar?
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Post by boreades on Apr 6, 2015 19:28:06 GMT
Has anyone mentioned Mithras yet?
Worshippers of Mithras had a complex system of seven grades of initiation, with ritual meals. Initiates called themselves syndexioi, those "united by the handshake". Mithraic initiates were required to swear an oath of secrecy and dedication, and some grade rituals involved the recital of a catechism, wherein the initiate was asked a series of questions pertaining to the initiation symbolism and had to reply with specific answers.
In the Mithraeum of ancient Capua (which is now Santa Maria Capua Vetere in Campania) there are five frescos which may depict the initiation rituals. The first shows a blindfolded naked man; in the second he is also kneeling and his hands are bound behind him; in the third he is no longer blindfolded and is being crowned; in the fourth he is being restrained from rising; in the fifth he is lying on the ground as if dead.
These themes will sound very familiar to any brethren.
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Roy
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Post by Roy on Apr 7, 2015 16:05:18 GMT
This is my starting point (one of them at least), but the Dutch author Frans Farwerck (who was a member of Le Droit Humain) has spent his life making the point that one of the sources of Freemasonry are the "Männerbünde" (German for men-bonds) of North-Western Europe. In his smaller and larger books he trances many many Masonic symbols back to the prechristian religion of North-West Europe.
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Post by billmcelligott on Apr 7, 2015 19:51:59 GMT
While there is merit in all theory of pre Modern Freemasonry influences they may well have shaped not only Freemasonry but society in general.
Hence if society was influenced then it would follow that attitudes and concepts in or around the turn of the 17th to 18th century would have moulded Modern Freemasonry. I see nothing wrong there, a Modern Freemasonry evolution and like all evolution it confinues to evolve.
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Post by peter2 on Apr 8, 2015 7:46:20 GMT
Has anyone mentioned Mithras yet? There are quite a number of Mithraic practices that appear in Freemasonry, not the least being that Mithras's two supporters (wardens) each had a torch, one held up and the other down, supposed to represent the sun at different stages. Also a ladder of 7 steps (degrees) with 3 working tools at each
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Post by peter2 on Jan 4, 2017 21:22:07 GMT
I could add The Widow.
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