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Post by offramp on Aug 17, 2012 14:39:57 GMT
I have just received a copy of Surrey Mason: Issue 28, Summer 2012. It turns out that RW Bro Eric Stuart-Bamford sent a letter to the Queen for her Jubilee. It is not a pretty sight. Clench your teeth... Your Majesty On behalf of all the Freemasons and their families in the Masonic Province of Surrey I send you heartfelt congratulations on your Diamond Jubilee.
I can assure you that the Freemasons of Surrey will continue to support and serve you for time immemorial.
My best wishes and may you remain in good health to reign over this wonderful country and Commonwealth for many years to come.
Eric Stuart-Bamford Provincial Grand Master of Surrey Most Excellent Grand Superintendent of Surrey For a start - I have no opinion about the queen. But my son can't stand the woman, so the opening sentence should have been On behalf of all the Freemasons and their families in the Masonic Province of Surrey except for Offramp's son Sliproad I send you heartfelt congratulations...[etc] But the real puzzle comes in the next sentence: I can assure you that the Freemasons of Surrey will continue to support and serve you for time immemorial. Now - I had only a vague idea what immemorial meant - so I looked it up. Wikipedia suggests, "ancient beyond memory or record". IMO one should not use words like immemorial unless one is totally confident about their meaning. But even if a correct word was used, what would be the meaning of the sentence? That Freemasons will support the queen for all eternity? How does that work? The last sentence is a bit of a breathless mishmash ("My best wishes and may you remain in good health <gasp>") and refers darkly to this wonderful country: is that England? If England is in the Commonwealth, why not say to reign over this wonderful Commonwealth for many years to come. There's no mention of the queen being a patron to the Freemasons, oddly. Eric received a standard response, identical to the one this little girl got for painting Charles with big ears: www.chroniclelive.co.uk/communities/rowlands-gill/2012/05/23/rowlands-gill-girl-gets-thank-you-message-from-the-queen-72703-31028823/
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Post by billmcelligott on Aug 17, 2012 21:19:02 GMT
offramp
Surely of all the things that are happening, you can find something more important to criticize.
it's a thank you letter, or a congratulatory note, not a declaration of a change in policy. Maybe he could have used different words, who knows. The question should be was he sincere. On the basis that Lodges sing the first verse God Save the Queen at the closing of the Lodge in England it would seem he is not far off the mark.
You have every right to voice an opinion, so has Eric.
Eric had better watch what he puts on his Christmas Cards in future. You never know who's watching.
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Post by offramp on Aug 18, 2012 13:49:21 GMT
offramp Surely of all the things that are happening, you can find something more important to criticize. I apologize if the subject of my post was below the minimum importance level. But he says he is talking on my behalf. And not just on MY behalf - he says he is talking on behalf of our wives, children, mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters. He says that we are all sending heartfelt congratulations to the queen. How does he know? - it is completely slapdash writing. But it is the total misuse of the word immemorial that irks me. It is not a mistake I would make as I would look the word up. He obviously did not know what the word meant but could not or would not look up its meaning and thought sod it, that'll do. I'm only writing (in my own mind) on behalf of every Freemason, and all their families of course, in Surrey.Here is how it should be done: royalarch.cumbriafreemasons.org/Documents/news/F%20ME%20Grand%20Supt%20Address%202012.pdfSome weeks ago on behalf of all the Freemasons of our Province I sent loyal greetings and congratulations to Her Majesty the Queen on her Diamond Jubilee. I have received the following reply from Christopher Sandamas the Chief Clerk to The Queen. The Queen has asked me to thank you and the Freemasons of the Masonic Province of Cumberland and Westmorland for your kind letter containing a message of congratulations to Her Majesty, sent on the occasion of the Sixtieth Anniversary of the Queen’s Accession to the Throne. Her Majesty was interested to learn of the lighting of beacons taking place on 4th June to mark the Diamond Jubilee and sends her best wishes to all concerned. We do not know the exact text of the letter because it was private. It was clearly pretty short. No mention about speaking on behalf of all the family members of Freemasons. No waffle about continuing to support the queen from time immemorial.He also received, crucially, a non-standard reply - he did not get the same letter the little girl got for painting Charles with colossal ears. If someone is writing on my behalf I would expect him or her to spend more than a minute and a half on constructing meaningful sentences - not just stuff the first thing that comes into his head into an envelope and laugh. And then seek out the best way of getting the whole text of that letter published!
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Post by billmcelligott on Aug 19, 2012 9:57:01 GMT
First , those that criticise have to be ready to receive criticism. That is just logical.
I did not say it was not important, I clearly said
The letter you quoted :
Now I said, he could have used better words or phrasing, but did he take liberty with those he did use. And was it Scandalous ?
Well that will be a matter of opinion. You read it one way I read it another. I just can not see that the use of the phrase is worthy of 9 lashes. Maybe 3.
So while I can see the use of the word immemorial may be a misuse
So if we say something has lasted from 'time immemorial' is it a statement that it had lasted or it still lasts ?
Again depends on how you the individual sees things.
In the end it is a matter of opinion, my opinion is not very important, just wanted to create some balance.
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Post by offramp on Aug 20, 2012 14:24:06 GMT
You are right - it should be only three lashes. It is not as if anyone is going to read it. Here is my effort:
To our Most Puissant & Majestic Sovereign, Your Majesty, please deign to accept from me, your humble and unworthy servant, fraternal greetings from your loyal Freemasonic subjects in the Valley of Surrey.
In dust and ashes we kneel before you, our Beloved Patron, and pray to the GAOTU that you reign with continued peace and benevolence for many many years to come.
All hail our Beloved Sovereign! Offramp Order of the Secret 22" Monitor Lizard
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Post by billmcelligott on Aug 20, 2012 16:12:20 GMT
SMOOOTH Bro.
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Post by offramp on Jan 30, 2013 21:30:56 GMT
First , those that criticise have to be ready to receive criticism. That is just logical. I did not say it was not important, I clearly said More relevantly you said:
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Post by offramp on Feb 1, 2013 16:16:11 GMT
I was having a look around at the Surrey Pillars website, which is pretty good.
I came across www.surreypillars.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=425:westminster-city-school-lodge-4305&catid=80:lodge-news&Itemid=119 which is about Westminster City School Lodge number 4305.
I don't know anything about Westminster City School but going by the level of English in its press release I am assuming it is one of those hellish inner-city schools located in the centre of a sink-estate and used by society as a stepping-stone between nursery and prison.
Here is the message:
Word 4, their, should be its. Then "...it's active members" should be "its active members". The inverted commas around in waiting and healthy are inexplicable.
The idea behind the message is good but a proofreader was needed. People must get out of the idea that the first words that pop into their heads are not necessarily the best. That is why pencils have rubbers on the end.
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Post by offramp on Feb 14, 2013 21:14:04 GMT
Here is some information I found at a government website:
So how about this monstrosity, which, like the original post in this thread, is also from the www.surreypillars.org website:GASP!! Sixty-four words without a break. That surely must be some kind of record. I have not read a sentence like that since I read Julius Caesar's War in Gaul, for example:...but that was written 2000 years ago!
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Post by offramp on Aug 25, 2016 17:35:47 GMT
Okay. I have just read another Tunguska of a message from someone, it seems to be the Provincial Grand Master for Surrey, at Surrey Pillars. You can see it it Surrey PIllars. You really would think that before putting these pronunciamentos on the internet, Surrey PGL would get an English speaker to have a quick look to see if a 15-year-old ESOL student could tidy it up a bit. Lets have a look. *has* It's a shame I can't wear it after 31/12/2017. Obviously in a hurry. No time to write Most Worshipful. Not just for life - in perpetuity! That means after death! from the Provincial Office Are they? Let's see. End of story. Or is it? NOT left-handers... Tercentenary should be one word. At first I thought this was a line break that had found its way on to the website - but it's not, carry on reading. Past Masters' Simple! Right Worshipful. Do HIM a favour! ... Discouraged from wearing is obviously better in this huge sentence. Not really. It's incredibly poor isn't it? UGLE has had 300 years to think about this and now we get this illiterate mish-mash. Is there no one at Surrey PGL who can string two words together? Here is what I think would have been better:
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Post by billmcelligott on Aug 25, 2016 22:17:54 GMT
It is intriguing, the actual site for Surrey is surreymason.org.uk/I can find no link to this site in question. Plenty of links to GL from this site. The whois details Registrant: Bojan Nenadic Trading as: Provincial Grand Lodge of Surrey However it does havethe same address as GL. So maybe an individual justtrying to b helpful ?? Interesting info on site Masonic Biography GM Year Initiated 1999 Year first Installed 2004 Rank at first Provincial Appointment ProvGSteward Highest Provincial Rank ProvGM Year of Appointment at present Executive Office 2016 Year of first Grand Lodge Appointment 2015 If this is accurate I should be Grand Master UGLE
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Post by offramp on Dec 13, 2019 6:55:08 GMT
With regards to the first post in this thread (about GL of Surrey), the United Grand Lodge of England has also found it expedient to put words and thoughts into my mind and mouth. They decided, for some reason, to send a Tweet to the queen.
Here it is.Late? Well, he has been dead for 67 years. I'd say the "Late" window has been closed a while on that guy.So what is all this about? Essentially UGLE is nudging the queen and saying, "'Ere, did you know that 100 years ago today your Dad was made a Mason?"
In itself, that is fair enough....But wait! There is a bit more sellotaped on the end:I am afraid I do not remember being consulted about this. I have no feelings of loyalty toward the queen or any member of the royal family, and I know other Freemasons who feel exactly the same.
That sentence should therefore have read That would have been perfectly acceptable.
Just because we pay UGLE a load of money every year doesn't mean they have the right to be our spokesmen in our everyday lives.
If I ever feel the pressing need to tell somebody how loyal I am, I am capable of tweeting that myself, in 140 words or less.
The queen's secretary was clearly a bit bamboozled by such an unprovoked and seemingly pointless Tweet, but sent a reply anyway, couched in the vaguest of terms:All I am asking is for Grand Lodges to stop putting words in my mouth!
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Post by offramp on Dec 16, 2019 8:13:51 GMT
Look at this Tweet:It is from @solomonugle.
It is only one sentence, and a short one at that.
Let's have another look: COMPREHENSION FAIL! I think most literate people know that literati is a plural. A single literati is a literatus or a literato. If I was unsure I would avoid the word altogether and use a word like writer.GRAMMAR FAIL! There should have been a small B on Born. Either that or a full stop after Kipling, and remove the en-dash.LANGUAGE FAIL! He lived in hardship.ENGLISH FAIL! Before starting to write... SPELLING FAIL. This should be his famous verse (etc).
Some people will say, Well, it's only a a tweet. The trouble is, the people sending these tweets are our representatives at UGLE: the outward face of Freemasonry. If they cannot post one simple short sentence without it being full of errors, then we are all going to look like idiots. Surely it only takes 2 minutes to get someone literate to have a quick look at such a disaster.
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