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Post by sagytb on Jan 11, 2016 9:57:10 GMT
Hi all,
I have question, why bro DR James Anderson had replaced the story of Noach with the story of Hiram in the freemasons Constitutions on 1723 ?
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Post by ionic on Jan 11, 2016 15:53:22 GMT
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Post by peter2 on Jan 12, 2016 0:34:00 GMT
Is the question about Noah or about Anderson?
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Post by sagytb on Jan 12, 2016 11:57:17 GMT
I am trying to understand why bro Anderson changed the story of the third degree from Noah to Hiram. I know that in the early freemason there were only 2 degrees, and in the FC degree the story was about Noah. the Noachides were the bases to the religion, and i understand that bro Anderson want to unlink masonic tradition from religion. Is it right? any other idea why the story was changed?
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Post by billmcelligott on Jan 12, 2016 15:53:04 GMT
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Post by peter2 on Jan 12, 2016 22:28:49 GMT
I am not at all sure that it was Anderson that actually made the change. It might be worthwhile discovering in which lodge we first see the 3rd and what was peculiar about that lodge.
It seems to me that the removal of Noah who was raised and the substitution of Hiram who was not raised is most peculiar in a raising ceremony.
I suspect that another group with greater authority introduced its own legend, based on the death of James the Just, brother of Jesus, who was thrown down from the walls of the temple and killed by a blow to the forehead with a fuller's club.
If so, there is an heretical form of Christianity concealed in Freemasonry.
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Post by billmcelligott on Jan 15, 2016 3:18:12 GMT
I suspect that the additions were added to create more work and more entertainment for the many new members that were filling the lodges.
In the UK we have two problems one with Lodges that do not have enough members and the ither thise wuth too many. My Lodge we have the Stewatds sitting in line for some 7 or 8 years. We farm work out to keep them actove.
Here , from WIKI is some further research you may enjoy.
According to authors Robert Lomas and Christopher Knight, the prototype for Hiram Abiff was the Egyptian king Seqenenre Tao II, who (they claim) died in an almost identical manner.[18] This idea is dismissed by most Masonic scholars.
In his book The Sufis, the Afghan scholar Idries Shah suggested that Dhul-Nun al-Misri might have been the origin of the character Hiram Abiff in the masonic Master Mason ritual. The link, he believes, was through the Sufi sect Al-Banna ("The Builders") who built the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem. This fraternity could have influenced some early masonic guilds which borrowed heavily from the Oriental architecture in the creation of the Gothic style.[19]
The French masonic historian Paul Naudon has highlighted the similarity between the death of Hiram and the murder of Renaud de Montauban in the late 12th Century chanson de geste, The Four Sons of Aymon. Renaud, like his prototype Saint Reinold, was killed by a hammer-blow to the head while working as a mason at Cologne Cathedral, and his body hidden by his murderers before being miraculously re-discovered
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Post by peter2 on Jan 15, 2016 10:16:09 GMT
Hiram is from the HR word root,giving us Hiram(2), Hermes, Horus(2), Hercules and Hera - all of them heroes. The HR root seems to mean "high born" so not a personal name. Even today HRH has its traditional meaning. For example Huram Rossa (sometimes translated as cheerful rose) was the chief wife of Suleiman the Magnificent (known to Masons as Solomon the Great) See 18th degree and the Song of Solomon. Here are contemporary portraits of the two. Hiram Abiff can be translated as "High-born (was my) Father" which is odd because we only refer to his mother as the Widow, never mentioning his father. This can be matched to Horus (the younger) who was apparently the result of artificial insemination of the Widow Isis (and hence genuinely the son of a widow) and later raised his father Osiris. This may be the origin of the early 3rd degree with Noah raised by his sons - hence without loss of secrets. But then, how to explain that the new Grand Lodge did not have the genuine secrets. Answer: a brand new legend that put the loss as long ago.
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Post by billmcelligott on Jan 15, 2016 18:11:12 GMT
Yes that is all very interesting and Romantic but I was making the case for a more down to earth reason for the expnsion of the ritual.
We have to look at the times in which these things happened and the 16th to 17th Century we see the movement away from the Devine rule of Kings to a more populous society.
freemasonry has always had links with The Royal Society - let us just take a snip from their website The History section.
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Post by peter2 on Jan 16, 2016 20:35:25 GMT
... We have to look at the times in which these things happened and the 16th to 17th Century Is it of value to point out that the Rossa of Suleiman the Magnificent had died only 50 years before the Rose was introduced into the Old Testament - in the KJV?
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Post by offramp on Jun 8, 2020 18:59:33 GMT
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Post by Aslantash on Nov 21, 2020 12:11:26 GMT
Hiram is from the HR word root,giving us Hiram(2), Hermes, Horus(2), Hercules and Hera - all of them heroes. The HR root seems to mean "high born" so not a personal name. Even today HRH has its traditional meaning. For example Huram Rossa (sometimes translated as cheerful rose) was the chief wife of Suleiman the Magnificent (known to Masons as Solomon the Great) See 18th degree and the Song of Solomon. Here are contemporary portraits of the two. Hiram Abiff can be translated as "High-born (was my) Father" which is odd because we only refer to his mother as the Widow, never mentioning his father. This can be matched to Horus (the younger) who was apparently the result of artificial insemination of the Widow Isis (and hence genuinely the son of a widow) and later raised his father Osiris. This may be the origin of the early 3rd degree with Noah raised by his sons - hence without loss of secrets. But then, how to explain that the new Grand Lodge did not have the genuine secrets. Answer: a brand new legend that put the loss as long ago. This, from a linguistic point of view, is absolutely nonsense. The name Hiram is Phoenician and its root is entirely different.
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Post by peter2 on Nov 21, 2020 21:10:41 GMT
>The name Hiram is Phoenician
Names certainly do travel through time. For example Heru (Egyptian) becomes Horus (Greek).
Jerusalem is named after Shalim a god from Canaan/Phoenicia. So was Hiram a follower of Shalim?
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Post by offramp on Nov 26, 2020 10:09:45 GMT
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Post by peter2 on Nov 26, 2020 23:12:45 GMT
Many years ago, I was going home in the bus to get ready for Royal Ark Mariners, during which ceremony I was to be installed as Commander Noah.
So I was sitting right at the back of the bus in the middle of a seat that covered the width of the bus, and I was meditating.
And I found that I had a tiller in my right hand (leaving the left free for knocks?) and I was steering the Ark that is the Earth.
And from my right hand descended a plumbline and I looked down and the plumbline entered a craft lodge.
A few months later I spoke to an elderly brother. In that lodge we would form up and then process into the lodge.
The brother told me that as he formed up to process in for the various orders, he would do a short meditation. Each time his consciousness would be out across the planet. But with RAM he said his consciousness always went outside the planet.
We can deduce this from the ritual. Locally the ritual says that RAM took its rise before the existence of the sacred law. Since, as far as we know the human race has always had teachers and thus sacred law, RAM must take its rise before humanity and quite possibly before this planet
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