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Post by devoutfreemason on Oct 12, 2007 4:23:44 GMT
In the EA degree, we are taught that the letter G suspended between the S&C in the east stands for a grand and noble purpose. Now, it could be defined as God, Gnosis (the conduit to God) or also Geometry (the science that are operative brothers practiced that is the basis or our Craft.) Over the passage of time I am begining to believe to many what should be suspended in the East should be their GL charter, for they believe that that is the end all be all. It comes before God, Gnosis or any other science. Without the right Charter, it makes no differance what rite, ritual or life lesson is practiced or learned. They teach us that besides that charter, we cannot learn anything beyond a profane existance. Without the proper signature on that charter no light can ever be shed, no knowledge learned, no gnosis saught or gained or any road be traveled.
The Anti's have it all wrong. It is not the ritual, the grips, words, tokens or signs that make a Mason. It is simply the signature of the Charter that hangs on the secrataries wall. No Mason holds thier own enlightenment, it is the GM who decides.
Sound good to you?
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Post by negredo on Oct 12, 2007 4:59:39 GMT
Interesting. In my jurisdiction this very thing is explained in the FC degree and not the EA.
Perhaps for some, but many, myself included, merely see a charter as a dispensation to work as a lodge. For some of us who have started lodges, it is something for which we have had to work very hard to obtain--so that we may practice our Craft and bring about both a collective understanding of just why in the FC degree God is related to geometry.
I am sad that you have been led to this opinion for you paint every brother as a mere sheep. Well, one cannot paint all with such a brush. While I may or may not agree with everything my GM does, I try to examine why I may feel a certain way and not one thing that passes my lips has gone unconsidered. I choose to pay due respect to the offices that administrate my tradition, and if I disagree with the person, I must keep in mind that he is not the totality of the Craft forever. I also, as mentioned before, examine why I disagree and come to terms on my own so as not to descend into sweeping indictments of why the Craft seems to be not listening to me. Perhaps I need something to say? Or perhaps I need to show how my ideas have worked in my own life. This is how I learn about and remember my own spark of Divinity within.
I, and my other brothers are our own persons.
Perhaps you have not found a lodge to engage your inquisitive mind? I pray you do, brother. It is a wonderful thing and will reinvigorate your continuation in the Craft.
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Post by hollandr on Oct 12, 2007 5:20:16 GMT
>It is simply the signature of the Charter that hangs on the secrataries wall.
As with much of Masonry this too is veiled in allegory
The real charter is from the Head of All True Freemasons as Co- Masons would call Him/Her
The HOATF may not be the same as TGAOTU
Cheers
Russell
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Oct 13, 2007 15:29:20 GMT
No Mason holds thier own enlightenment, it is the GM who decides.
Come now, such cynicism. There's a word of wisdom I find myself having to hand out more and more these days (but I don't despair of such frequency: it's like having to hand out prophylactics to teenagers - the more often you do, the more likely someone will use them), and it this: it is we who are Freemasonry, and our Grand Lodges, whatever their misunderstanding in this regard, are tolerated by us to weild authority in our name, authority which derives from us. As the GL Above was not made with human hands, so remember that GLs themselves most certainly are, and if they fail us, may be undone by those same hands.
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Post by devoutfreemason on Oct 13, 2007 15:40:28 GMT
No Mason holds thier own enlightenment, it is the GM who decides.Come now, such cynicism. There's a word of wisdom I find myself having to hand out more and more these days (but I don't despair of such frequency: it's like having to hand out prophylactics to teenagers - the more often you do, the more likely someone will use them), and it this: it is we who are Freemasonry, and our Grand Lodges, whatever their misunderstanding in this regard, are tolerated by us to weild authority in our name, authority which derives from us. As the GL Above was not made with human hands, so remember that GLs themselves most certainly are, and if they fail us, may be undone by those same hands. Now that is some revolutionary thinking there Brother, be careful. ;D ;D ;D Trust me, this line of thinking will get you in hot water by the dogmatists. Here in the USA, their devotion to their GL's rivals those of The People's Temple.
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vtmason
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Post by vtmason on Oct 13, 2007 22:54:08 GMT
No Mason holds thier own enlightenment, it is the GM who decides.Come now, such cynicism. There's a word of wisdom I find myself having to hand out more and more these days (but I don't despair of such frequency: it's like having to hand out prophylactics to teenagers - the more often you do, the more likely someone will use them), and it this: it is we who are Freemasonry, and our Grand Lodges, whatever their misunderstanding in this regard, are tolerated by us to weild authority in our name, authority which derives from us. As the GL Above was not made with human hands, so remember that GLs themselves most certainly are, and if they fail us, may be undone by those same hands. Now that is some revolutionary thinking there Brother, be careful. ;D ;D ;D Trust me, this line of thinking will get you in hot water by the dogmatists. Here in the USA, their devotion to their GL's rivals those of The People's Temple. No one holds the key to my enlightenment but me. This I know from personal experience, not something I read on the internet.
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Post by devoutfreemason on Oct 14, 2007 3:31:23 GMT
Now that is some revolutionary thinking there Brother, be careful. ;D ;D ;D Trust me, this line of thinking will get you in hot water by the dogmatists. Here in the USA, their devotion to their GL's rivals those of The People's Temple. No one holds the key to my enlightenment but me. This I know from personal experience, not something I read on the internet. I think you missed my point.
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vtmason
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Post by vtmason on Oct 14, 2007 9:30:57 GMT
No one holds the key to my enlightenment but me. This I know from personal experience, not something I read on the internet. I think you missed my point. I actually see your point. I just don't think that you have the practical experience in Masonry to back up some of the very bold and biting statements that you make. This whole "internet Masonry" thing is something that I have personally used to broaden my horizons, meeting people , and Masons for that matter that I normally wouldn't. It's pretty cool for me actually. But at the end of the day, I go to lodge. I've actually traveled so much this year, I've worn out one tux. These are the practical experiences that you can learn from a web site, and how we have the chance to practice our craft with our brothers and sisters. Dude, you need to find a lodge. I think your point is that the Grand Master holds the keys and rules supreme. Balonie. I have a ton of success stories in my own back pocket, of lodges that came back from the brink of extinction because, they decided to practice Freemasonry instead of what they were doing. It had nothing to do with Grand Lodge. The reason I fear you are so cynical my friend, is that you had a poor initial experience with the craft, and the Masons you found on the internet were just the same. At first you just annoyed me, but there are qualities about you that I like, Brad. I just hope that you can go to lodge. That will change your whole outlook
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Post by billmcelligott on Oct 14, 2007 13:20:36 GMT
Have to agree with vt, there is no substitution for the face to face daily / weekly formation of attitudes and thnking patterns you will get from regular attandance of a good Lodge. OK we have to accept that not all Lodges are as good but in general that keep up.
Obviously there are differences around the world, however here in the UK to be honest we dont see that much of the GL Officers, they pop in now and then and give the obligatory speech at the Festive Board but apart from that we just dont get any interference. so this adulation or conformity to a divive authority does not really happen. Generally the Lodge business consists of trying to give the initioates a decent ceremoney and to see the Oficers progress along the line.
But in Emulation ritual the 'G' is explained in detail in the Second degree. It alludes to the 'Grand Geometrician', so the speculation of why and what stops there. It is what it is.
but we all learn and grow as we go, even Grand Lodge Officers have been known to learn a thing or two from time to time.
Again I have to agree with vt, you may find some knowledge on the internet and some people get to understand certian subjects through dicussion or some might say argument. But you will find no better learning or developing tool that the Lodge.
There is in ritual a line which goes, 'by a perfect submission to the Master and his Wardens' now to the untrained mind this could be said to be a rule for domination. In fact it is designed to get you, the individual, to realize that humilty is the path to understanding.
It is the same as Jesus washing the feet of his diciples, for it it here they learn that their own self worth is less important than the well being of others.
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Post by devoutfreemason on Oct 14, 2007 14:47:29 GMT
I did mean FC and not EA. Please forgive the typo.
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Post by antoninus9 on Oct 23, 2007 14:33:36 GMT
devoutfreemason may not have enough "practical" experience but I do. ;-)
In Georgia, Florida and Alabama, if you seek enlightenment in way other than that which the Grand Master agrees you will be threatened, and then erased, suspended or expelled.
Freedom of conscience is wholly unknown in these states. The only people who sing the praises of these Grand Lodges are those who have something to gain financially from their involvement, or those who have no problem with blind obedience.
Jeff
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Post by maat on Oct 24, 2007 0:03:52 GMT
There is in ritual a line which goes, 'by a perfect submission to the Master and his Wardens' now to the untrained mind this could be said to be a rule for domination. In fact it is designed to get you, the individual, to realize that humilty is the path to understanding. Master - Spirit S Warden - Soul J Warden - Heart Mind All three are interior/hidden ... at the centre of ourselves. We might do well to quiten our chattering head mind allow our inner tutors to lead us. Hence the penalties of the first two degrees? Maat
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vtmason
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Post by vtmason on Oct 24, 2007 1:27:50 GMT
devoutfreemason may not have enough "practical" experience but I do. ;-) In Georgia, Florida and Alabama, if you seek enlightenment in way other than that which the Grand Master agrees you will be threatened, and then erased, suspended or expelled. Freedom of conscience is wholly unknown in these states. The only people who sing the praises of these Grand Lodges are those who have something to gain financially from their involvement, or those who have no problem with blind obedience. Jeff If this sort of enlightenment is that important, how does the Square and Compasses come into play? I get enlightenment in several different ways, Masonry only being a part of it. I am free to make any choices that I choose. If there is a time in my life when Masonry decides that I can not practice her precept any more, I still have many avenues. I can guarantee that I would not call it Freemasonry though.
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Post by antoninus9 on Oct 24, 2007 2:39:22 GMT
Actually, what we have in America today isn't "Freemasonry". As Prof. Margaret C. Jacob accurately points-out; Freemasonry was at the core of eighteenth century Enlightenment thought. Somehow I find it difficult to relate the present system with the ideas of Liberty, Equality, Freedom of the Press, Right to Trial by a jury of your peers, and Freedom of Conscience.
I think what we have today is an organization that looks like Freemasonry but acts in opposition to everything that Freemasonry once stood for. I'm not sure it can honestly be called "Freemasonry". Perhaps "Not-so-Free-Masonry" would be more accurate.
Jeff
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Post by hollandr on Oct 24, 2007 3:05:44 GMT
>everything that Freemasonry once stood for
Perhaps it is time to make a new vessel for the Sons and Daughters of Light
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vtmason
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Post by vtmason on Oct 24, 2007 10:02:47 GMT
Actually, what we have in America today isn't "Freemasonry". As Prof. Margaret C. Jacob accurately points-out; Freemasonry was at the core of eighteenth century Enlightenment thought. Somehow I find it difficult to relate the present system with the ideas of Liberty, Equality, Freedom of the Press, Right to Trial by a jury of your peers, and Freedom of Conscience. I think what we have today is an organization that looks like Freemasonry but acts in opposition to everything that Freemasonry once stood for. I'm not sure it can honestly be called "Freemasonry". Perhaps "Not-so-Free-Masonry" would be more accurate. Jeff I do not know many that would agree with the conclusion that you have drawn from Professor Jacobs writing, but whatever. It just makes my point stronger. No Grand Lodge holds the key to anyone's enlightenment.
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jmd
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Post by jmd on Oct 24, 2007 11:02:20 GMT
And not every Lodge has a G - I have visited various constitutions that do not.
And not every constitution that has a G has it suspended in the East - we have it in the centre of our Lodges, half-way between the floor and the ceiling, above the pavement, and certainly not even near the Square and Compasses.
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vtmason
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Post by vtmason on Oct 24, 2007 11:07:53 GMT
And not every Lodge has a G - I have visited various constitutions that do not. And not every constitution that has a G has it suspended in the East - we have it in the centre of our Lodges, half-way between the floor and the ceiling, above the pavement, and certainly not even near the Square and Compasses. Getting sidetracked, but is it suspended over the altar? I have seen a couple lodges that suspends a plumbline over the altar
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Post by corab on Oct 24, 2007 11:26:07 GMT
Freemasonry is as free as you choose to make it. Now more than ever I am convinced of that.
Freemasonry leads to the Centre, the Inner Ruler Immortal -- that place from which we cannot err. No GL or SC in the world can change that. And if the earthly masonic powers that be stand in the way of you reaching that centre, you have no choice but to challenge them, and be true to yourself.
Freemasonry is not about the collective; it is about the indivual. That the collective benefits therefrom is but a happy coincidence.
S&F,
Cora
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vtmason
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Post by vtmason on Oct 24, 2007 12:16:31 GMT
I agree Cora, save one point. I don't believe in coincidences. I think that in any development in a group setting, the entire group grows stronger than its individual members
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