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Post by Blackadder on Jan 11, 2008 22:09:01 GMT
Greeting Brothers, I was installed as Snr. Steward for 2008 last Saturday. And we had a EA Degree last Wednesday.In my Lodge there is a policy of letting the Jnr. Officers sit as WM, SW, JW to give them experience at sitting in the various chairs. I was asked to sit in the Snr. Deacons chair ,but I declined as I had my parents visiting and I didn't think that would give me enough time to prepare for the degree.I was told to make it easy all the officers will sit in their normal chairs with the excepting of the SD & JW ,Past masters will fill those chairs for the degree. I went to Lodge for the last practice on Tuesday night before the degree to see if anyone needs help. I then found out that a Fellow Craft will be sitting as JW for the degree,I was stunned and said :what is going on here,since when do we have FC sitting as a Snr. Officer in the Lodge for a Degree.I exchanged a few words with the "powers that be" and said " I will not be participating in the degree. I went home read the Florida Masonic Digest and its clearly states that ALL degree teams must be Master Masons.A Brother pointed this out to the Past master and the Past District instructer and was told "We dont bother about that". I was told before the degree that some Brothers wanted the FC to wear the JW's apron during the degree. I cant help feeling that this is all wrong,it just doesnt make sense to me.How would the FC know how to open and close the Lodge? I was going to say "Only in Florida" but I will wait to see what the learned Brothers of the forum have to say.
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Post by leonardo on Jan 11, 2008 22:22:46 GMT
Hi Blackadder, as a humble EA myself I'm not really in a position to respond other than to make an observation: If they, the members of the Lodge in question, are not following the rules as described then there's something wrong, somewhere.
I am sure you will receive far more detailed and informative responses but I just want to add my two-pence worth.
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staffs
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Staffs
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Post by staffs on Jan 11, 2008 22:45:00 GMT
Greeting Brothers, I was installed as Snr. Steward for 2008 last Saturday. And we had a EA Degree last Wednesday.In my Lodge there is a policy of letting the Jnr. Officers sit as WM, SW, JW to give them experience at sitting in the various chairs. I was asked to sit in the Snr. Deacons chair ,but I declined as I had my parents visiting and I didn't think that would give me enough time to prepare for the degree.I was told to make it easy all the officers will sit in their normal chairs with the excepting of the SD & JW ,Past masters will fill those chairs for the degree. I went to Lodge for the last practice on Tuesday night before the degree to see if anyone needs help. I then found out that a Fellow Craft will be sitting as JW for the degree,I was stunned and said :what is going on here,since when do we have FC sitting as a Snr. Officer in the Lodge for a Degree.I exchanged a few words with the "powers that be" and said " I will not be participating in the degree. I went home read the Florida Masonic Digest and its clearly states that ALL degree teams must be Master Masons.A Brother pointed this out to the Past master and the Past District instructer and was told "We dont bother about that". I was told before the degree that some Brothers wanted the FC to wear the JW's apron during the degree. I cant help feeling that this is all wrong,it just doesnt make sense to me.How would the FC know how to open and close the Lodge? I was going to say "Only in Florida" but I will wait to see what the learned Brothers of the forum have to say. In my Province and The JW and SW would only be allowed to wear that apron if they had actually been invested for the yesr in that ofice. At rehearsal LOI evening when we all move up one and practice for the ensuing year the acrting officer DOES NOT wear the apron or collar of that office as simply put they would no yet have been invested into that office. if a past master takes such and office for the evening to step in or whatever then he wears the appropriate apron relevant to his rank be it past master provincial GDC or otherwise. I think you are quite right in this instance but differeneces and widespread.
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Post by wayseer on Jan 11, 2008 23:04:27 GMT
Bro Blackadder - as far as I can determine the US is in a field all of it's own.
However, it should be remembered that WM is the WM - what he says goes - in the working of the Lodge he has more power the GM. This observation will no doubt draw some flak - but in the end it's the WM's call.
I know within my own Lodge there are points where we exercise the 'we don't bother about that' rule - it's a bit like local folklore.
I know of no BoC rules that forbid a FC from ritual work although you must be a MM to take 'office'. If a FC is directed to work in a relieving position for a night then he is not 'appointed' or 'installed' into that 'office'. Besides, three rule the Lodger, five hold the Lodge while seven or more make it Perfect. Clearly if this was to follow at the barest minimum FC would have to fill the other Officers roles to work the Lodge.
It would appear that the Lodge could only work to the 2nd D otherwsie the FC would have to leave the Lodge when the 3rd is about to open. I see no reason why the FC would not know how to assist the WM to open and close the Lodge working the 1st & 2nd - nothing that a little practice would overcome.
I take you fiirst point - In my Lodge there is a policy of letting the Jnr. Officers sit as WM, SW, JW to give them experience at sitting in the various chairs.
If that is a policy - a local folklore if you like - then I think you have answered you own question. Such a policy I find encouraging and I would be interested to see how it might pan out in practice.
I think, as FMs, we are become legalistically programmed - it's more about rules than it is about anything else. I can see next year, or the following year, the local WM won't dare go into the Chair without a lawyer sitting on his right hand - all these legal challenges.
You might be right, legally - but ....
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Jan 11, 2008 23:07:35 GMT
Bro Blackadder - as far as I can determine the US is in a field all of it's own. However, it should be remembered that WM is the WM - what he says goes - in the working of the Lodge he has more power the GM. This observation will no doubt draw some flak - but in the end it's the WM's call. I know within my own Lodge there are points where we exercise the 'we don't bother about that' rule - it's a bit like local folklore. I know of no BoC rules that forbid a FC from ritual work although you must be a MM to take 'office'. If a FC is directed to work in a relieving position for a night then he is not 'appointed' or 'installed' into that 'office'. Besides, three rule the Lodger, five hold the Lodge while seven or more make it Perfect. Clearly if this was to follow at the barest minimum FC would have to fill the other Officers roles to work the Lodge. It would appear that the Lodge could only work to the 2nd D otherwsie the FC would have to leave the Lodge when the 3rd is about to open. I see no reason why the FC would not know how to assist the WM to open and close the Lodge working the 1st & 2nd - nothing that a little practice would overcome. I take you fiirst point - In my Lodge there is a policy of letting the Jnr. Officers sit as WM, SW, JW to give them experience at sitting in the various chairs. If that is a policy - a local folklore if you like - then I think you have answered you own question. Such a policy I find encouraging and I would be interested to see how it might pan out in practice. I think, as FMs, we are become legalistically programmed - it's more about rules than it is about anything else. I can see next year, or the following year, the local WM won't dare go into the Chair without a lawyer sitting on his right hand - all these legal challenges. You might be right, legally - but .... John, we allow all masons to take office and i myself personally was invested as Inner Gaurd when i was a FC. My lodge currently has several EAs who are stewards which is also an Office with which they are invested by the WM
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Post by wayseer on Jan 11, 2008 23:14:44 GMT
There you go - differences all over the place.
I should make it clear - I am talking from the position of UGLQ ritual - with which I am somewhat familiar.
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Post by 2 BOWL CAIN on Jan 12, 2008 7:14:27 GMT
Brother Blackadder,
In my neck of the woods, I ran into so many masons and PM's that say the same thing, "we do not worry about following rules, but we will enforce them on you"
it got sickening after awhile. operating without rules or anyone enforcing them leads to leaders doing what they want, instead of what they should do.
good luck brother.
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