staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
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Post by staffs on Jan 31, 2005 21:11:49 GMT
Wow,seven hours ,that is certainly committment .
Good luck Foxcole on both your journeys.
Nice to see Yoki now has some female company.
However yoki certainly holds her own against the testosterone crew
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Post by foxcole on Jan 31, 2005 23:10:06 GMT
"However yoki certainly holds her own against the testosterone crew"
It's always a pleasure to take up that challenge!
Seven hours? Just enough time for reflection, conversation, a little fresh air.... and to satisfy the road-bug that infects my daughter and me. (My fault; I've always taken her out for long, random drives as a little get-away, just to go somewhere we'd never been. She's my travel buddy.)
That's almost a thing of the past as a waste of fuel, except when some purpose waits at the other end, so we hope for that regular chance to do some real driving.
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Feb 1, 2005 5:40:12 GMT
Foxcole, If your daughter is under 18yrs old, once you are a member, you may if you wish, ask your mother Lodge to make/accept her as a "LEWIS". This is a wonderful ceremony, not often held in CoMasonry, (we had one here in Christchurch about 10 yrs ago). It does not require any commitment by her to join later on, but we believe greatly inceases the spiritual aspect of the recipient, as well as strenghtening the Lodge concerned. If, as you say, she travels with you a lot in the car, that would also provide a subtle bond on top of that you already have with her. There is so much unseen energy possibilities in this earthly realm that we should grab every option presented to us for the good of humankind.
Another avenue of this sort is the Theosophical Society's child programme of "THE ROUND TABLE" based on king arthur, but with very many similarities to freemasonry, but in a simplified manner.
Cheers, Hubert.
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Post by foxcole on Feb 1, 2005 13:20:23 GMT
Thank you for the very thoughtful suggestions, Hubert--but, alas, she's hardly a lass. She just turned 23 at the end of December.
She doesn't drive, though--never has, due to tendinitis and limitations from Osgood-Schlatter disease in her knees and now, rheumatoid arthritis. But she's great company, a sweet personality with a sense of humor.
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Michael
Member
... as you have passed through the ceremony of your initiation...
Posts: 326
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Post by Michael on Feb 1, 2005 14:02:57 GMT
As a follow up to a my earlier post: Women and Freemasonry Excerpted from a talk given by VW Bro.Rev. Neville B. Cryer to the Philalethes Society, as printed in Masonic Times, May, 1995, Rochester, New York, USA In 1693 we have the York Manuscript No. 4, belonging to the Grand Lodge of York, which relates how when an Apprentice is admitted the 'elders taking the Booke, he or shee [sic] that is to be made Mason shall lay their hands thereon, and the charge shall be given.' Now I have to tell you, that my predecessors in Masonic Research in England from Hughan and Vibert and from all the rest onward, have all tried to pretend that the 'shee' is merely a misprint for 'they.' I now am the Chairman of the Heritage Committee of York. I know these documents; I've examined them, and I'm telling you, they say 'she,' without any question. Of course, we have a problem, haven't we; to try to explain that. My predecessors would not try to explain this; they were too male oriented. The fact remains that, there it is, in an ancient document of a 17th century date. That this could have been the case seems all the more likely as that in 1696 two widows are named as members in the Operative masons Court. Away in the South of England, we read in 1714 — that's before the Grand Lodge of England — of Mary Bannister, the daughter of a barber in the town of Barking, being apprenticed as a Mason for 7 years with a fee of 5/- which she paid to the Company. ^ This is part of a much larger article - freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/women.html#women_inVW Bro.Rev. Neville B. Cryer is, at least here in the northwest (UK), a very well known and articulate speaker. And can be regularly 'heard' at Salford Masonic Hall.
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bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on Feb 1, 2005 21:13:50 GMT
Now that would be a journey worth making....he is very good in print.
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Post by whistler on Feb 1, 2005 22:06:33 GMT
It was an ad for his book "What do you know about the Royal Arch?" that lead me to TFM ( Bet some over there regret that) and hence to here. BTW I Used some of the lectures from that book in our HRA Chapter last year
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Post by ingo on Feb 14, 2005 13:27:47 GMT
Steve The hfaf-Weblink about women as operative masons is historically correct.
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Michael
Member
... as you have passed through the ceremony of your initiation...
Posts: 326
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Post by Michael on Feb 14, 2005 13:37:54 GMT
Ing,
I think it probubly is true, but how do you 'know' it is??
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Post by whistler on Feb 14, 2005 21:10:47 GMT
Steve The hfaf-Weblink about women as operative masons is historically correct. Welcome back Ingo.... Have you been on Holiday
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Post by ingo on Feb 15, 2005 12:34:24 GMT
Whistler Good to hear from you. No, I was hard working. Unemployment is so bad in Germany now and I had some work. I even have some more work but I just thought I should show up here.... Michael Well the research was done by several sources. First there is Bro. John Segall from the QC-Loge of Grande Loge de France. The other source was "L'Enzyclopédie maconnique de France". I will have to look if I find the ISBN...
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Post by gord on Feb 3, 2006 9:28:04 GMT
Foxcole ... I am sure with you and Yoki posting we will all learn a lot, and I know Yoki will enjoy the company. It is the freedom and your willingness to speak your minds that breath fresh air in to these Forums and enable a lot of us to increase our understanding and I do sincerely thank you for that. Just for the record, I belong to several 'esoteric' orders two of which admit women, I would not still be a member of these two if it was not the case. Some of these Orders need the feminine influence to function, and I am speaking from experience. And perhaps another Topic. Greetings all: I too belong to several 'esoteric' orders, two of which admit women. Their presence is not only helpful but necessary when operating our particular ritual. Hence balance and harmony. Someone else has already posted this link: Women in Freemasonry freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/women.htmlFrom The Grand Lodge of BC and Yukon, my home jurisdiction. It is a very good article and should be read (if you have time) in it's entirety. One sentence from subsection "Co-Masonry by Bro. Dudley Wright The Builder, November 1920: England" "... The schismatic movement spread to Paris and Benares and afterwards to London, at which last-named place, in September, 1902, the Lodge "Human Duty," now No. 6 on the Co-Masonry Register, was consecrated. The title "Co-Masonry" in lieu of the earlier term "Joint Masonry" was adopted in 1905." Gord again, This expression, Joint Masonry, seems to me to be a much better one than CoMasonry. Why? Well it describes what is happening. Men and women are jointly practising masonry as opposed to Freemasonry which is historically a male-only fraternity. Does this make Freemasonry male chauvinistic? Certainly not to my thinking. A good response can be found also at BC and Y: freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/anti-masonry04.html subsection no. 7. In part: "... An argument can be made that nothing is allowed to enter a masonic lodge that may lead to dissention among the members. This justifies the exclusion of any discussion of politics or religion, and has also been used to justify the exclusion of women. A justification has also been proposed that a masonic lodge is, in the current new-age language, the Men's House; that the ritual is a form of male bonding. The only real justification is that Freemasonry actively promotes and teaches certain social freedoms, one of them being the freedom of association. If freemasons wish to associate in a male-only environment, that then is their right and privilege as free citizens. No other justification or explanation is required. It should be stressed that although women are not permitted to petition for membership nor attend lodge meetings, the female friends and relatives of freemasons are encouraged to attend or participate in the many social activities organized by lodges. The teachings and beliefs of Freemasonry are in no way or fashion misogynist. There are two organizations initiating women that style themselves as masonic but are not recognized by regular Freemasonry." Gord again: To sum up I think that masonry isn't something that can be determined by sex (or is that gender?). Therefore lodges of men, men and women or just women are equally valid. But, and this is the big but, there is no reason to join all existing orders into one big package. For that matter no one order should worry about recognition from another if they have formed themselves outside of it's parameters. There is nothing wrong with the status quo, indeed there is every worry to have any great joining considered. If freemasonry were to become a national or international entity [here I'm referring to North America] then the very vocal opponents of it would have a basis for their paranoias. (or is that paranoiae?) The only question in my mind is the right of visitation. Can a man from regular freemasonry visit a CoMasonic or LDH lodge without breaking any vows or promises as determined by the book of constitutions? Probably not, but perhaps we could all meet at a festive board or social evening. Freemasonry will always be about bigger issues then recognition from jurisdiction to jurisdiction or from order to order. It is about the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of man. Man in the sense of humanity. To the brother who is having problems with the concept of Supreme Being, I suggest to you that which I've recently told a new intiate--answer in the affirmative about the subject, don't bother getting into a metaphysical discussion about what this concept may actually mean to you. No person can understand rationally what the Divine is like. Joesph Campbell once said to a Bishop friend of his that he had no "personal" God. This he went on to explain meant that he couldn't give a name or face to the idea. Personally I believe God or the Supreme Being to be unknowable to a human being. Indeed in ancient times any term referring to God was not allowed. But when God is referred to in lodge by any term whether it be Grand Geometer or Grand Architect etc. then for a moment I attempt to humble myself to a concept greater than I and hope for the day I have some understanding greater than today. '
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Post by cezarek on Feb 3, 2006 10:23:19 GMT
The title "Co-Masonry" in lieu of the earlier term "Joint Masonry" was adopted in 1905." Worth remembering that 'Co-Masonry' is an English language phrase. In other languages there isn't neccessarily a special term. The French use 'Maconnerie Mixte' - mixed Masonry. On the continent there doesn't seem to be such a big division or the need for labels that one finds in the English-speaking world.
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Post by taylorsman on Feb 3, 2006 12:50:13 GMT
Divinator. I have no problem with Lady Masons or Co-Masons, to me they are Brother and Sister Freemasons. Neither do I feel that all Lodges should be made to admit persons of both genders, there is indeed a place for Male Only, Women Only and Mixed Lodges withinthe World of Freemasonry.
What I WOULD like to see is the Abolition of the prohibition on "Regular" Malecraft Freemasons such as myself being allowed to visit Co-Masons' Lodges if invited. The only reason I DON'T visit them is because I am banned from doing so, not because there is anything inherently wrong in doing so in my opinion. It's like the speed limt or the need to buy a TV Licence, if I break those rules and drive at too high a speed or own a TV with no Licence and am caught doing so I will be punished by the Law. If I attend a Co-Masonic Lodge and this was found out I would be punished by Grand Lodge, so in both of these examples for fear of the consequencies I obey the Rules. I don't have to agree with them I DO have to keep to them.
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Post by a on Feb 3, 2006 20:23:16 GMT
Perhaps one trick (wrong phrase sorry) is to learn how to recognise and then balance the male and female energies that exist within us all? In a lodge full of people sufficiently skilled in this regard then gender divisions become irrelevant.
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Post by ceejay64 on Feb 16, 2006 2:04:28 GMT
Excellent point, Stewart!
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