giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Jun 6, 2005 9:24:35 GMT
In Italia Freemasonry it was adopted this motto: Freedom, Equality and Fraternity., obviously translated into Italian. Most of Brethren do interpre these words in the wrong way, i. e.: politically. But this depends on their absolute ignorance about esotericism In England, and maybe in other Anglophones countries, I was told that the motto is Faith, Hope and Love. I ask you if these words are interpreted literally or in an esoteric sense.
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Post by taylorsman on Jun 6, 2005 9:54:00 GMT
Anglo Saxon and Protestant cultures such as the UK would be more likely to opt for the literal and practical interpretation over any Esoteric one. Generally the UGLE motto is rendered as "Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth".
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Jun 6, 2005 10:06:21 GMT
So I was wrong, wasn't I?
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Post by taylorsman on Jun 6, 2005 10:35:23 GMT
I wouldn't say you were wrong, but that you would seek an Esoteric interpretation . Perhaps this is a cultural difference? Italy is Latin and Roman Catholic of course and I have found that the Latin Nations of Europe such as Italy, France, Spain and Portugal have a different value system and take on Life to their Nordic counterparts such as Great Britain, Germany, The Netherlands and Scandinavia.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Jun 6, 2005 10:40:37 GMT
Esotericism has nothing to do with religions.
There's the same difference as mountain and valley.
From valley depart many paths (religions) that take men to the peak. But once you've got there, differences exist no more.
Druids were celtic, and also esoteric.
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Post by taylorsman on Jun 6, 2005 10:58:01 GMT
I didn't mention the Celts who to a large extent were supplanted by the Anglo Saxon influences in what is now the UK. Anglo Saxons tend to the more pragmatic and as I have said elsewhere on this Forum most UGLE Freemasons I have met, even those who are not merely "Social Clubbers" are not that "Esoteric". They may be in the Higher Orders but are more likely to be attracted by the History and Lore surrounding these than by more Mystical Matters, SRIA being an exception.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Jun 6, 2005 11:07:31 GMT
I had to edit my first topic since I realized that I forgot to explicit the motto. I beg your pardon
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Jun 7, 2005 9:42:56 GMT
I want to punch you... Faith: stems from the Greek peitho's, pactum, agreement. So, it postulates a certain degree of rationality. The actual meaning, which considers faith as opposite to rationality, dates from 1500 circa. Hope: stems from Greek elpi's. Elpi'zo = to want, to long for. If you want something to happen, you must work to gain the result, it's not enough to sit in the sun and wait. Love. Charitas, charity, is the smooth, inner joy, an intimate satisfaction for having done well. So, other comments?
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Post by taylorsman on Jun 7, 2005 12:12:54 GMT
Steady on! I don't think anything has been said which requires a smack in the mouth, although I have to say sometimes it is the only way to resolve a conflict when more lenient means have failed and can be very satifying to he who gives if not to him who receives.
I tend to use words in their topical and more well known meaning and not what they might have meant originally hundreds of years ago. Even in my lifetime of 52 years some words have changed meaning. When I was a child "Gay" meant happy, vivacious, light hearted, now it is almost universally taken to mean "Male Homosexual" and I no longer use that word either in its original meaning nor in its new one. Taking an older example, "Conceit" used to mean a skill or ability and was thus a positive term but now it means a negative form of pride or arrogance. Some people, wrongly in my opinion, use the term "ignorant" to mean ill mannered and badly behaved , yet the real meaning of that word means to be unaware and should not have any perjorative connotation.
So I take Faith , Hope and Charity in the meaning most people will attribute to them.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Jun 7, 2005 12:39:40 GMT
Hi Taylorsman!
it was just to demonstrate how great is the powe of the words, and how Catholic church does not ignore it; to the contrary, it uses and abuses of it!
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Post by taylorsman on Jun 7, 2005 13:20:03 GMT
I have never thought that the RC Church was ignorant of the Power of Words, far from it!
They may mean nothing to me, but to a Devout Catholic, absolvo te, will have a deep meaning and effect as would being told he was Excommunicated.
Words can be a powerful weapon , consider "Achtung Juden" and the effects when painted on a shop front from the mid 1930s in German until 1945.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Jun 7, 2005 13:24:03 GMT
Taylorsman: then you got it!
I had this in mind, when posting this topic: to draw the attention of the Brethren on the power of the word.
In the beginning there was the Word...
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Jun 7, 2005 19:09:46 GMT
Am i missing it...what was the word ?
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Post by a on Jun 7, 2005 21:46:40 GMT
Am i missing it...what was the word ? Oh Staffs Staffs, staffs, staffs, what indeed. This little question could well wrap you up for a lifetime or two or three or four or .........
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Post by middlepillar on Jun 7, 2005 22:08:04 GMT
And the word was with God, and the word was God......St john 1
Lee
Christian masonry is a very differnt type of masonry, most orders open with the bible open at St John.
As for Stewarts comment yes this question could wrap you up for ages but so could so many others.
Any question is easy when you know the answer!
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jun 8, 2005 2:26:04 GMT
Lean close, with your ear at my mouth...
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Jun 8, 2005 8:43:34 GMT
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Post by middlepillar on Jun 8, 2005 9:07:08 GMT
Gio
I was actually slightly spanking Stewart!
As I said, any question is easy if you know the answer, and on this Forum we can ask any questions we want!
Who's buying the next round!?
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Jun 8, 2005 9:23:06 GMT
Christian masonry is a very differnt type of masonry, most orders open with the bible open at St John. I don't think that mine a "Christian" masonry. We open at St John for the deep esoteric meaning of the Prologue, since it exalts the role of the "Light".
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