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Post by taylorsman on Mar 21, 2005 17:39:45 GMT
I hadn't heard of "ACTUP" either.
Charity is like many matters one for Individual choice, whether to contribute money to or to give active assistance or both. Several posters have stated that if all you wish to do is to actively participate in some charitable work in your locality then there are far more efficient ways to do so than by joining a Masonic Lodge and I would agree with them. I am sure J Ratcliff that there are many bodies in your locality be that at Community, County or State level where you could involve yourself in work for the Good Causes you believe in, agree with and feel are worthwhile heping.
Now what will an Individual put into Freemasonry and what will you get out in return? Only J Ratcliff can answer that for J Ratcliff, as only Taylorsman can answer that for Taylorsman. What I was looking for which motivated me to become a Freemason and what I have found over the 16 years and membership of many Orders will have some similarities but also many differences to what has appealed to Staffs or Middlepillar, or Whistler to name but three.
So J Ratcliff I sense that you are disappointed in Freemasonry in your locale. I can't see that you will change it, but you have the choices to leave The Craft in good standing and utilise your talents in another body with more directly charitable aims, to stay in your Lodge but also join some charitable organisation such as Round Table, Lions, Rotary assuming you have these in the USA, or as a third choice become the Charity Steward (or equivalent) in your Lodge then you will be in a position to be pro-active in this matter. Whatever you do, good luck to you in your choice.
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Post by jratcliff on Mar 22, 2005 0:58:51 GMT
>>So J Ratcliff I sense that you are disappointed in Freemasonry in your locale..
Sigh...I must communicate so poorly. I am not disappointed with Freemasonry in my locale. I said this in an earlier post quite clearly.
My point, which I suppose I never really got across, was that I don't think Freemasonry has to be so complicated. In other words, if Freemasonry is 'only' something as simple as a social club for men who dedicate themselves to the highest moral standards, put on a little bit of theatre, and contribute to charities, then that should be more than enough.
I also tried to make clear why I am interested in Freemasonry for much more than just the charitable aspects. I greatly enjoy being able to honor God and be part of a fraternity in a setting that doesn't require me to violate my own personal religious beliefs.
I think this is all great and wonderful. I just struggle to find 'meaning' in the ritual above and beyond the obvious.
Certainly I can't be alone in this, if my reading material is any evidence.
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Post by taylorsman on Mar 22, 2005 5:12:46 GMT
Freemasonry is only as complicated as you wish it to be. Now I sense J Ratcliff that you and I are at the opposite ends of the spectrum here. I like the involved Rituals, the Symbolic, the Mystical, even Spiritual aspects of Freemasonry, that is what attracted me to it. I would be bored to tears in Lions, Rotary, Round Table, laudible and honourable as those organisations may be, they are just not me.
Now I can only go by what you have posted here but the message I derive is that you are not into the Ritual side but would prefer more active involvement on the Charity side , and that your Lodge is not as into that as you would like.
Now you can either try to change that, but may well meet with entrenched resistance and cause disharmony or you can remain in your Lodge but find another vehicle outwith thereof for your charitable energies. As a matter of interest which good causes do you wish to support as I am sure there are many voluntary bodies in Missouri which will be only to pleased to have your time, talents and contributions. Alternatively why not join the Shrine? I understand they are very big on Charity and not so Ritualistic etc and raise large amounts for burns hospitals for children, a very worthwhile cause indeed.
In my experience here in the UK the involvement of UGLE Lodges and Brethern in Charitable activites varies from the members paying an annual covenant and the Lodge making a donation to some local good cause through to a more active involvement both on an individual and Lodge basis. In one Province a few years back there was a Charitable event and Lodges were invited to participate, some were really keen and ran stalls and side shows, others merely sent a cheque but were not that involved. These days people have very little free time given the increased pressure in the workplace especially on those who are wishing to build a career and may thus be forced into working on , often unpaid, after their contractual hours, and possibly having to study after work to keep up to date with the requirements of their occupation. If they are married with children then those too have calls upon their time to say nothing of the routine aspects of life. As there are still only 168 hours in a week there is not a lot left for many of us to devote to other causes however worthy they may be.
I hope you find what you are looking for J Ratcliff within Freemasonry or elsewhere. I feel that your WM when he said "That should be your calling" when you questioned him on the matter of Charity, was right on the target and that you should direct your energies in that respect towards some suitable cause.
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Post by jratcliff on Mar 22, 2005 14:09:15 GMT
>>Now I sense J Ratcliff that you and I are at the opposite ends of the spectrum here. I like the involved Rituals, the Symbolic, the Mystical, even Spiritual aspects of Freemasonry, that is what attracted me to it.
And I find this interesting. What 'meaning' do you get out of the ritual then? What are your references to understanding it?
>>I would be bored to tears in Lions, Rotary, Round Table, laudible and honourable as those organisations may be, they are just not me.
Understood. I would not be bored to tears in those organizations, however I think Freemasony offers 'more' in terms of the rich tradition and history of the organization. I think the ritual is 'cool' for that reason alone, I just don't understand it is all.
>>Now I can only go by what you have posted here but the message I derive is that you are not into the Ritual side but would prefer more active involvement on the Charity side , and that your Lodge is not as into that as you would like.
Yes, that is pretty much true. That is not to say I wouldn't like to be more involved in the ritual, but first I have to gain some form of understanding about it. Ritual without meaning can be fairly empty. It is difficult to dedicate yourself to hour upon hour learning ritual without knowing what any of it is supposed to 'mean'.
>>Now you can either try to change that, but may well meet with entrenched resistance and cause disharmony or you can remain in your Lodge but find another vehicle outwith thereof for your charitable energies.
I feel my charitable activities need not necessarily even have to happen inside the lodge itself; though I have been encouraged to do so. It is simply that attending lodge acts as a constant reminder that I have an obligation to perform acts of charity at all times in my life.
Do you have a ritual so different in Ugle that this is not the key lesson imparted in the first degree? Or, do you carry pockets full of metal into the ceremony?
>> As a matter of interest which good causes do you wish to support as I am sure there are many voluntary bodies in Missouri which will be only to pleased to have your time, talents and contributions.
As I said, I contribute primarily through volunteer work with local schools. I also do things in our community such as help with local events. The last couple of years I have volunteered to help out at the senior citizen center. I also am involved in many fund raisers in our area. I have done all of this independent of Freemasonry. Now that I belong to the organization it reminds me of my obligation to continue these activities and I hope to always volunteer help with anything our lodge is involved in.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not some sort of charity crusader. This is more basic, in terms of your thoughts, words, and deeds in day to day life.
>>Alternatively why not join the Shrine? I understand they are very big on Charity and not so Ritualistic etc and raise large amounts for burns hospitals for children, a very worthwhile cause indeed.
I am seriously considering joining the Shrine for that reason. However, I have only been made a Master Mason for a few short weeks and I want to invest some time and energy in my own lodge for at least a year before I make a decision to join yet another organization.
Right now I want to be involved in my own lodge and learn what I can learn by attending all of the regular meetings and some of the outside activities as well. In two weeks I am going to participate in "The Sword of Bunker Hill" which I hear is entertaining. Next I will be attending a breakfast service with the grand lodge master when he visits our area.
>>These days people have very little free time given the increased pressure in the workplace especially on those who are wishing to build a career and may thus be forced into working on , often unpaid, after their contractual hours, and possibly having to study after work to keep up to date with the requirements of their occupation.
You hit on a key there. That is why I feel giving up your time is more important than writing a check.
>>I hope you find what you are looking for J Ratcliff within Freemasonry or elsewhere. I feel that your WM when he said "That should be your calling" when you questioned him on the matter of Charity, was right on the target and that you should direct your energies in that respect towards some suitable cause.
Thanks. And I am happy with Freemasonry. However, I still have plenty of outstanding questions. Right now I feel before I can undertake the effort to memorize the ritual I need better to understand what the purpose of it is.
How does the ritual transform into something more than words spoken in a specific order and in a specific way?
A few of them have obvious meaning, most of them do not.
It sounds like you 'get a lot' out of the ritual. What do you use as reference material to ascertain the meaning behind it?
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Post by middlepillar on Mar 22, 2005 17:40:19 GMT
JR
I would only like to add that you have said you have only been a Master Mason for a few weeks now, I think this is probably where all the wire are crossing, Most of us who have been a Master Mason for many years would agree that Freemasonry being the peculiar system it is takes many years to understand, I still consider myself to be learning, you seem to want to know everything in a hurry, and at the same time will not take anything on (for want of a better word) trust.
We have many members of this Forum who are relatively young masonically, all of them have asked many interesting questions and are anxious to get replies to thier questions, they are all building blocks to thier understanding, my suggestion to you is next time you enter your Lodge, sit quitely in the corner, close your eyes and let the feeling wash over you, ritual is merely a guide and one mans light switch in the ritual is irrelevant to someone else.
Try to be more patient and I am sure things will gradually start to make some sort of sense
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Post by taylorsman on Mar 22, 2005 21:10:50 GMT
To me a well written Ritual , performed with competance whether listened or spoken by myself has a power over and above mere words. I like the older English in which it is written , as I greatly prefer the language of the King James Bible and The Book of Common Prayer to the contemporary English of the more modern versions which do nothing for me. I would be horrified if there was ever a move to modernise the language of our Rituals and one of the reasons I dislike a certain working is the lack of euphony in the way that certain words are pronounced, (sorry Gnostic).
Let the words sink in, use a dictionary if some are unknown to you, read them over and relate them to the actions taking place and the Legend of the particular Degree, the Symbolism of the Working Tools, the Tracing Boards of each Degree etc.
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Post by Thegnostic on Mar 22, 2005 21:45:54 GMT
Brethren All, How often have you heard the reply to this question "A system of Morality, veiled in Allegory and illustrated by Symbols" which in essence is correct to the newly initiated Brother, but, how do you answer to the further questions - what Allegory, what symbols etc etc It is my viewpoint that the raison d etre of Freemasonry is Initiation into the mysteries of ourselves.... Obviously it is first necessary to know of what one`s SELF consists, but thats another subject... Gnostic "Think on these things"
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Post by jratcliff on Mar 23, 2005 3:03:02 GMT
Wow. So I get home from work today and there is a new book in the mail. What excellent timing. Today I received my copy of "The Meaning of Masonry" by W.L Wilmshurst www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0517331942/qid=1111546804/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-7861063-3296840What perfect timing. Here is the definitive book answering exactly the questions I have posed in this thread and others. What is most interesting is that the author talks about how Masons are initiated and then have no way to actually find out the actual 'meaning' behind it. Better than Pike, Leadbeater, or any of the others. This books is clear, cogent, and to the point. I cannot recommend it enough to any new Mason who, like myself, was looking for a real solid answer as to the 'meaning' behind our ritual and organization. I will be reading this one for years to come.
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Post by taylorsman on Mar 23, 2005 5:20:03 GMT
This looks like a very good book and perhaps something like this ought to be handed to each new Initiate along with the customary Bye-laws and Book of Constitutions etc.
I have always been wary of the work of Albert Pike and would not recommend him to anyone who asked me about Freemasonry and personally feel he has done us more harm than good. I have to say he is not that well know this side of "The Pond".
I certainly agree that knowledge of oneself does play a very large part in gaining the real benefits of Initiation. For some this does not occur and they then do become no more than members of a club.
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Post by a on Mar 23, 2005 7:03:01 GMT
I certainly agree that knowledge of oneself does play a very large part in gaining the real benefits of Initiation. For some this does not occur and they then do become no more than members of a club. And what happens, in time, when those clubbers perform initations on candidates? If you have not been "properly initiated" so to speak yourself, how can you hope to initiate candidates properly? The whole Lodge could end up being no more than a club that has missed out on the single most important element and benefitsof an initiatic society. And when those members talk about their Freemasonry, they, through no fault of their own, are perhpas being inaccurate and misleading. And the darkness engulfs.
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Agent J
Member
On a Mission from God...
Posts: 127
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Post by Agent J on Mar 23, 2005 8:03:12 GMT
Bro Jratcliff, I quite agree...that is the best book I have ever read to give a clear and concise explanation of what Freemasonry is. I thoroughly enjoyed it and will read it many times.
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staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
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Post by staffs on Mar 31, 2005 18:38:13 GMT
Taken from U.G.L.E website :
What is Freemasonry
Introduction
Freemasonry is one of the world's oldest secular fraternal societies. The following information is intended to explain Freemasonry as it is practised under the United Grand Lodge of England, which administers Lodges of Freemasons in England and Wales and in many places overseas.
The explanation may correct some misconceptions.
Freemasonry is a society of men concerned with moral and spiritual values. Its members are taught its precepts by a series of ritual dramas, which follow ancient forms, and use stonemasons' customs and tools as allegorical guides.
The Essential Qualification for Membership
The essential qualification for admission into and continuing membership is a belief in a Supreme Being.
Membership is open to men of any race or religion who can fulfil this essential qualification and who are of good repute.
Freemasonry and Religion
Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. Its essential qualification opens it to men of many religions and it expects them to continue to follow their own faith. It does not allow religion to be discussed at its meeting.
The Three Great Principles
For many years Freemasons have followed three great principles:
Brotherly Love - Every true Freemason will show tolerance and respect for the opinions of others and behave with kindness and understanding to his fellow creatures.
Relief - Freemasons are taught to practise charity and to care, not only for their own, but also for the community as a whole, both by charitable giving, and by voluntary efforts and works as individuals.
Truth - Freemasons strive for truth, requiring high moral standards and aiming to achieve them in their own lives.
Freemasons believe that these principles represent a way of achieving higher standards in life.
Charity
From its earliest days, Freemasonry has been concerned with the care of orphans, the sick and the aged.
This work continues today. In addition, large sums are given to national and local charities.
Freemasonry and Society
Freemasonry demands from its members a respect for the law of the country in which a man works and lives.
Its principles do not in any way conflict with its members' duties as citizens, but should strengthen them in fulfilling their public and private responsibilities.
The use by a Freemason of his membership to promote his own or anyone else's business, professional or personal interests is condemned, and is contrary to the conditions on which he sought admission to Freemasonry.
His duty as a citizen must always prevail over any obligation to other Freemasons, and any attempt to shield a Freemason who as acted dishonourably or unlawfully is contrary to this prime duty.
Secrecy
The secrets of Freemasonry are concerned with its traditional modes of recognition. It is not a secret society, since all members are free to acknowledge their membership and will do so in response to enquiries for respectable reasons. Its constitutions and rules are available to the public. There is no secret about any of its aims and principles. Like many other societies, it regards some of its internal affairs as private matters for its members.
Freemasonry and Politics
Freemasonry is non-political, and the discussion of politics at Masonic meetings is forbidden.
Other Masonic Bodies
Freemasonry is practised under many independent Grand Lodges with standards similar to those set by the United Grand Lodge of England.
There are some Grand Lodges and other apparently Masonic bodies that do not meet these standards, e.g. that do not require a belief in a Supreme Being, or that allow or encourage their members as such to participate in political matters.
These Grand Lodges and bodies are not recognised by the United Grand Lodge of England as being Masonically regular, and Masonic contact with them is forbidden.
Conclusion
A Freemason is encouraged to do his duty first to his God (by whatever name he is known) through his faith and religious practice; and then, without detriment to his family and those dependent on him, to his neighbour through charity and service.
None of these ideas is exclusively Masonic, but all should be universally acceptable. Freemasons are expected to follow them.
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