|
Post by plewis66 on Mar 31, 2005 20:59:56 GMT
This page: www.canonbury.ac.uk/?programmesuggests that Dr Dee's Enochian system was 'preserved by such men as Sir Hans Sloane and Elias Ashmole'. I seem to recall that a guy named Elias Ashmole is somewhat famous for being the first person in Britain for whom record of initiation is extant. Does the Enochian system make any appearance in freemasonry?
|
|
ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
|
Post by ruffashlar on Apr 1, 2005 18:55:07 GMT
Well, hardly, considering that until the Golden Dawn system, it was recondite in the extreme. The G.D. version of Enochia is, anyway, a great simplification of the Dee system. There are so many elements to get right - another alphabet, a new language, strange letter-by-letter pronunciations, big tabular inscriptions, sonorous chants - that the ordinary ritual matter by itself would make the subject prohibitive in terms of time and money commitment. This, combined with the generally-accepted urban mythology of the occult which says that not only is the Enochian system one of the most powerful, and least-understood, magics in the West, it is also one of the most dangerous if not treated with the careful respect it deserves.
Such a system does not easily lend itself to the uses of a civilian ceremony such as Freemasons employ.
|
|
|
Post by plewis66 on Apr 1, 2005 23:16:16 GMT
Absolutely agree. Thanks for the confirmation. It seems not everything at the Canonbury Masonic Research Centre is indeed Masonic!
|
|
|
Post by whistler on Apr 2, 2005 6:00:02 GMT
This, combined with the generally-accepted urban mythology of the occult which says that not only is the Enochian system one of the most powerful, and least-understood, magics in the West, it is also one of the most dangerous if not treated with the careful respect it deserves. Such a system does not easily lend itself to the uses of a civilian ceremony such as Freemasons employ. Ruff Have you ahd experience with Enochian magic? other than knowing the name I haven't studied it
|
|
|
Post by plewis66 on Apr 2, 2005 9:02:04 GMT
I have, a little.
|
|
ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
|
Post by ruffashlar on Apr 3, 2005 23:10:33 GMT
Ruff Have you had experience with Enochian magic?
No. I'm still working my way through the theory of magic, only practising it on a rather reduced scale. Enochian Magic is Big Time. I'll wait till I trust myself out on the open road.
|
|
|
Post by whistler on Apr 5, 2005 1:16:13 GMT
OK now I am curious, I found this on the web www.schuelers.com/enochian/Up to step 27, seems to be quite common and not unique, Yes have a shower - relax- use some positive affirmations, a little meditation and those 27 steps are pretty ordinary. Step 28 to 43, are they working with sounds, or are the words, important.. must be the words cause Ruff's accent and my accent saying those words would be completely different. So if it is the words it must be the thought patterns - if so what or whom would be communicated with. I am not at all sure about this one
|
|
|
Post by atarnaris on Apr 16, 2005 23:53:35 GMT
Ruff Have you had experience with Enochian magic?No. I'm still working my way through the theory of magic, only practising it on a rather reduced scale. Interested to know what system you use Brother.
|
|
|
Post by atarnaris on Apr 16, 2005 23:54:24 GMT
So what are the similarities from what you understand b/w magick and quantum physics?
|
|
|
Post by Yoki on Apr 17, 2005 5:23:52 GMT
I know this has come up before Ruff but you really are a bundle of contradictions and please don't take this as a personal assault BUT. Magic in essence is the bases of the occult and underpins much of what you have riled against in past posts .It consists of intent, focus, imagination and the utilisation of energy's that are as yet unproven by sciences. There's nothing logical about its application and the results at best could be written of as coincidental. Having said that I still believe and note the word believe in its self says you are not certain, that Magic is a path to self knowledge and can produce tangible results. I am aware that Russel has asked you this question in the past and you may well have answered, but if so I missed it.
|
|
|
Post by plewis66 on Apr 17, 2005 8:46:49 GMT
Whistler: I'll make the assumption that you are refering to the opening rituals. The link just takes me to the home page. I have always been lead to blieve that the actual physical sound is important, and that the pronunciation is absolutely critical in Enochia. However... I would expect that the pronunciation guides written by John Dee would have been written phonetically based on English pronunciation of period. In fact, more specifically, the English regional accent that John Dee spoke in, of the period. This makes it quite difficult to know what the exact pronunciations would have been. I have worked with the pronunciation system given by the early Golden Dawn documents, and achieved some measure of success. This system is quite different from the system given on the website you refer to, but the guy who wrote that page has also quite clearly had some measure of success. This would suggest to me that although I have read that pronunciation is critical, perhaps it is not quite so critical as some believe. Also, in terms of regional variation of vowel pronunciation, perhaps the entities to which the calls are made can undertand the regional accents as easily as we do? So working in Australia might be fine, but someone from Glasgow might have troub;e Sounds like an intersting area of research.
|
|