giovanni
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odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
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Post by giovanni on Jun 27, 2005 7:26:13 GMT
There is a question that I would ask you. I know that England is on an island, not too lucky with regard to the climate. So Englishmen had to work hard to live. This has developed a pragmatic sense and, in fact, the greatest pragmatist are yours Locke, Berkeley and Hume. These being the premises, how is then possible that England is the motherland of Alistair Crowley and other similar people, totally irrational, who approach esotericism in a magical - even not devilish - manner?
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bod
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UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
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Post by bod on Jun 27, 2005 7:54:12 GMT
Dunno - never really understood the english....
cymru am byth...
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Post by whistler on Jun 27, 2005 8:30:03 GMT
Giovanni, The Poms are a rare breed, the cream of them left years ago. But don't hold that against them, some of them are OK, though Like the Italians they aren't very good at Rugby.
Like Brighton Rock, They are quite hard and brittle on the outside, candy in the middle with strange words surrounding their core. ;D
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Jun 27, 2005 8:36:02 GMT
Whistler, who are the poms?
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giovanni
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odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
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Post by giovanni on Jun 27, 2005 8:59:41 GMT
To confirm my theory have just a look to Google averts...
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Post by whistler on Jun 27, 2005 9:14:26 GMT
Whistler, who are the poms? ;D ;D Who shall be the first to educate our Italian Bro, on the finer points of Pommie.. B.......ds. I am too polite
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Post by hollandr on Jun 27, 2005 9:17:04 GMT
Giovanni
I think that a deeper study of England and its impulses would be valuable.
For example how does a small country with no constitution provide constitutions to some 110 countries of which about 80 still have them?
Cheers
Russell
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Jun 27, 2005 12:31:12 GMT
Giovanni I think that a deeper study of England and its impulses would be valuable. I agree. I was told by a Bro to read certain books. I'll comply with him. l[/quote] It is not true that England has no Constitution. There is no unique document, as for instance in Italy, but at least three different documents: Magna Charta, Petition of Rights, Bill of rights. My degree essay, before graduating at university, was a comparative analysis of the powers of the English premier and the Italian one. I studied English constitution, mainly on the book of Bagehot.
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Post by bevan on Jun 27, 2005 12:36:09 GMT
England may not have great weather but it has generally been a world leader when it comes to music and humour... Qualities that perhaps relate to philosophical study and chatting idly in pubs... When it's raining outside.... Perhaps it's got something to do with the warm brew as well... Who knows?
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Post by taylorsman on Jun 27, 2005 15:21:04 GMT
As a Scot who has lived in England almost twice as long as he lived in Scotland and who has some Ulster blood in him I have found that the English, whom I greatly love and admire as a people, are more pragmatic and phelgmatic than their celtic fellow Brits. Perhaps that is why the Esoteric is more predominant in the Scots, Irish and Welsh and this carries over into their Freemasonry too?
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Post by whistler on Jun 27, 2005 19:48:30 GMT
As a Scot who has lived in England almost twice as long as he lived in Scotland and who has some Ulster blood in him I have found that the English, whom I greatly love and admire as a people, are more pragmatic and phelgmatic than their celtic fellow Brits. Perhaps that is why the Esoteric is more predominant in the Scots, Irish and Welsh and this carries over into their Freemasonry too? Taylorman that is a fine example of why the whole racism thing is a load of rubbish - go back a few generations most of us have a vast range of genes - Even today wher ever there is conquest, there is a trail of genes left behind - That is part of natures way- helps to prevent inbreeding.. We are told to honour our Father and Mother - don't think we are supposed to be selective . Surely we are entitled to be judged by our own behaviour not our colour... Nothing like having white and brown nephews - funny thing is when they cut themselves both their blood runs red.... pity hope there might be some blue....
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Post by taylorsman on Jun 28, 2005 0:53:43 GMT
I wasn't aware that I had made any Racist remarks, but did point out that we are DIFFERENT. There are chacteristics which are more prevalent in one Ethnicity or Culture than another and to draw attention to these is in no way to insult nor devalue that group. Some Black races are far better at particular sports than their white counterparts. That is a fact , and is neither declaring them to be superior not the whites inferior , it is simply a statement based on empirical evidence.
Hence if the celtic nations are more attuned to the Esoteric that does not belittle the Anglo Saxons who have talents in other fields where the celts may not be so prominent. Of course there will be individuals who buck the trend but as with most things in Life we have to take the majority outcome and act accordingly.
So please, let us can the PC approach and not be afraid to say it like it is, one of the strengths of this Forum.
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Jun 28, 2005 2:59:17 GMT
Giovanni.
As another Scot, iId like to be the first to point out that of the three noted English philosophers you quoted, Locke, Berkeley and Hume, the latter, namely David Hume was in fact Scottish.
Perhaps that is why the Esoteric is more predominant in the Scots, Irish and Welsh, and presumably those from Leamington Spa, which would account for Aleister Crowley.
There's nothing wrong with Aleister Crowley that can't be explained by too much bad religion, too little love and too much altogether of Sex, Drugs and Rock-and-Roll - quite a feat for someone who died in 1947, one whole year before Hank Williams even invented that kind of music. But, as Gerald Manly Hopkins saw a little too well for his fragile Christian soul to bear, all music is the devil's music - the music, that is, of the old man of the woods, the goatfoot god whose province is poetry and fear.
They say that a horned fertility god was the original divinity of the Big Island, his name Cernunnos holding within it a memory of the Indo-European word for horn, and even nowadays we all know what it means to get the horn. Poetry and fear are what the Britons have always done best, the poetry expressive of our love, the fear finding form in our ancient tradition of ghost tales and the continuing culture of horror.
And yet, something as simple as the fear of being unable to get an erection is equally likely as a reason why a god with two pointy things on his head should be worshipped by the natives of this sad little island under a raincloud. Like him, our erections are on our heads: we have sex on the brain; all talk and no bollocks. And as every true intellectual agrees, they'd give it all up, ideas and culture and all, for more and better sex.
Well, it's a good stereotype. The fact is, national types mean nothing, especially not when the nation is question is really four hanging together by a thread.
Some thread - eh, Damocles?
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Post by taylorsman on Jun 28, 2005 4:38:58 GMT
Ah, back to normal at last! I again DISagree with Ruff. No doubt some who practice Magik, Crowley being one, were driven by sex, and I think he used it as an excuse to indulge his passions in that regard. However not every mystic is driven by a sexual motive. I have to wonder if Ruff is obsessed with the subject as he seems to bring it into every discussion?
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Jun 28, 2005 7:26:39 GMT
Taylorsman, instead I think that Ruff is right. Many so called mystics were people who compressed their sexuality so becoming mentally disturbed and, on the other side, your great poet Alexander Pope used to say, with perfect Neapolitan accent, cazzo duro un' vole penzeri Those who need a translation may contact me privately. My e-mail address is not hidden.
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Post by whistler on Jun 28, 2005 9:44:22 GMT
Taylorsman, I didn't mean YOU were RACIST in any way, If fact I have noticed from your many posts you are as fed up with all the PC nonsense as I am. When I commented on your post I had just received an email from a certain UK Gentleman who called me racist for calling him a Pom
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Jun 28, 2005 14:16:04 GMT
The book that I was suggested to read is The Occult, by Colin Wilson.
Did anybody read it?
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Post by hollandr on Jun 28, 2005 23:14:02 GMT
Giovanni
By coincidence I have just read (parts of) The Occult by Colin Wilson. I wonder if he has enough inner experience to be able to comment on some of the material with authority. But as an introductory survey it is fair enough if a little long.
Cheers
Russell
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