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Post by hollandr on Sept 19, 2005 22:16:03 GMT
Brethren
I am about to give a brief talk in lodge about the various stars in the lodge.
And I notice that the Blazing Star in the mosaic pavement (if present) has 5 points whereas in the EA TB it has 7 points.
So why the 5?
Of course we get that from Egypt where Sirius (the blazing star) has five points in the heiroglyph.
But why did the Egyptians give it five points?
Now of course we can say that it symbolises this or it symbolised that but generally those statements are not very informative being duplications of existing symbolism.
So what extra information do we derive from depicting the Blazing Star with 5 points?
I am open to offers
Cheers
Russell
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Post by maat on Sept 20, 2005 0:19:00 GMT
Tied up with the Senses - which are our way of operating within our world? The fact that it is centred within the Laws of Rhythym & Polarity (the Mosaic Pavement) would indicate this. Whereas the Seven Points on the Tracing Board are the Ideal ... something to be worked towards.
We are nowadays starting to acknowledge the Sixth Sense (even made a movie about it) beyond is yet another.
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Post by hollandr on Sept 20, 2005 0:22:09 GMT
Maat
>Tied up with the Senses
Possibly. but that does not seem to add anything to our understanding as we already knew we have 5 senses or 6 or 12 in the hindu traditions
Is there some new knowledge here?
Cheers
Russell
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Post by generalpike on Sept 20, 2005 11:16:17 GMT
Here under the UGLE, the five pointed star or Pentagram is explained as representing the FPOF and or the Star itself represents the Morning Star (actually Venus). However, it has also been seen to represent: the five wounds suffered by Christ; the four elements (air, water, fire and earth) plus the 5th element of Spirit; Mesopotamian imperial power (four corners of the world plus emperor); Pythagorus, emblem of perfection; Legend of Sir Gawain, five knightly virtues (generosity, courtesy, chastity, chivalry and piety); Of course the Egyptian five pointed star (as Stewart will be able to confirm) was rendered differently to what we use today. Being five straight lines outward from a common centre (the tombs in the Valley of the Kings are prolifically decorated with them) and apparently had the phonetic value of dwA (dwa) and represented the word for praise, as in praise God (dwA nTr). None of my pictures had these stars as you are not allowed to photograph in the tombs but here's one I found on the Web: The six pointed (seen in many UGLE Lodges) or hexagram is a potent symbol of the interaction of the Divine with the mortal, of God with Humankind. It has links with the Kabbalah, and is also known as the Star (or Magen /shield) of David or the Seal of Solomon. The seven pointed, or septagram, is far less common than the pentagram. Apparently it is important in Western kabbalah, where it symbolizes the sphere of Netzach, the seven planets, the seven alchemical metals, and the seven days of the week. It is also a sacred symbol to Wiccans who follow the "Faery" tradition, where it is called the Elven or Fairy star. The seven pointed star is also an important part of the seal of the A.A., the inner order of Aleister Crowley's OTO. It is also quite obviously linked to the mystical number seven. The eight-pointed star or octagram is a symbol of fullness and regeneration, and is linked to eight-fold systems such as trigrams of the I Ching, the pagan wheel of the year and the Ogdoad of ancient Egypt. The nine pointed star or nonagram is a symbol of achievement and of stability, though this is a stability that is subject to change. It can also be related to nine-fold systems, such as the nine Taoist kanji (psychic centers) which are similar to the Hindu chakras. GP
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Post by a on Sept 20, 2005 12:01:16 GMT
Of course the Egyptian five pointed star (as Stewart will be able to confirm) was rendered differently to what we use today. Being five straight lines outward from a common centre (the tombs in the Valley of the Kings are prolifically decorated with them) and apparently had the phonetic value of dwA (dwa) and represented the word for praise, as in praise God (dwA nTr). None of my pictures had these stars as you are not allowed to photograph in the tombs but here's one I found on the Web: As you know I am a newish student of hieroglyphs, and I still have much to learn. It would however be worth adding to general Pikes excellent account, by noting that dwa, in Middle Egyptian anyway can also be read to mean, in conjunction with the s and b (the loop and foot in the piccie above) to simply mean - star (source: Gardner). The three stars probably indicates plural. Also according to Faulkner's dictionary, it can mean - pupil (p219). So I wonder if this is the source of giving pupils gold stars in class for good work? I have not seen the star on its own used to mean praise yet (unless accompanied by a determinative of a man with his hands high in the air), but my own studies are still quite new, and symbols can have so many meanings depending on the precise period of Egyptian history we are talking about, the context of the piece, as well as the translator, not forgetting the commonality of variants and abbreviations. Perhaps Ruff could help on this one? As an aside, I have always found learning languages to be an enormous challenge, one of my weak spots. But there is something special about Egyptian hieroglyphs, I have one of my gut feelings about them (just like I had about Freemasonry some years ago, which has now proven itself to be accurate). It will be interesting to see what doors open as my studies progress here. There is something valuable to be found, of that I am sure. Aside over. General Pike, how did you feel in the tombs, for they do represent fairly well some masonic lodges, and I understand though not seen first hand Chapter rooms. I am not implying any connections, just curious about how you felt when you entered.
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Post by hollandr on Sept 20, 2005 22:27:03 GMT
>The three stars probably indicates plural.
Good point Stewart. It reminds me of the Dogon proposition that there exist Sirius A, B and C.
>Here under the UGLE, the five pointed star or Pentagram is explained as representing the FPOF and or the Star itself represents the Morning Star (actually Venus).
General Pike, we have the star in the east above the Master (obviously Venus) and also a five pointed star in the pavement surrounded by light - the Blazing Star.
Are they the same?
In the Emulation EA TB the Blazing Star has 7 points.
Were the elder brethren confused or were they recording some useful information?
If you read my thread on a new ritual you will see that I suggest that the FPOF can be unfolded into a series of five-fold relationships. Currently I suspect that the blazing star in the pavement has 5 points to tell us that there is a five-fold relationship involving the blazing star.
Of course the same logic can be applied to the star in the east and my current hypothesis is that those 2 stars constitute 2 of the points of the five fold relationship
Cheers
Russell
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Post by generalpike on Sept 20, 2005 23:41:51 GMT
General Pike, we have the star in the east above the Master (obviously Venus) and also a five pointed star in the pavement surrounded by light - the Blazing Star. Are they the same? I suspect they are one and the same as the extract from the TB lecture below should illustrate. The star in the East is a "Glory". In the Emulation EA TB the Blazing Star has 7 points. Were the elder brethren confused or were they recording some useful information? I may be looking at a different Emulation TB to you. I can see the Sun (left), the Moon (right) surrounded by stars and the "Blazing Star" or "Glory" (centre) but it seems to have more than 7 rays. I've had a look at some others from others constitutions and there doesn't seem to be a particular amount of rays used and some have a "G". Just in case you don't have them, here are the words from the Emulation FTB lecture that describe the BS: The Mosaic pavement may justly be deemed the beautiful flooring of a FM's Lodge, by reason of its being variegated and chequered. this points out the diversity of objects which decorate and adorn the creation, the animate as well as the inanimate parts thereof. The Blazing Star, or Glory in the Centre, refers us to the Sun, which enlightens the earth, and by its benign influence dispenses its blessings to mankind in general. The Indented or Tesselated Border refers us to the the Planets, which in their various revolutions form a beutiful border or skirtwork round that Grand luminary, the Sun, as the other does round that of a FM's Lodge.A further point to be aware of is that in Mackey's "Lexicon of Freemasonry" he says of the TBs " A painting representing the emblems peculiar to a degree, arranged for the convenience of the lecturer. Each degree of symbolic masonry has its TB, which are distinguished as TBs the first, second and third. It is therefore the same as the flooring or carpet." I'm not sure if this clarifies or further mystifies. GP
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Post by hollandr on Sept 20, 2005 23:55:57 GMT
> The Blazing Star, or Glory in the Centre, refers us to the Sun, which enlightens the earth,
Well if we accept that lecture then the Blazing Star is not the same as the star in the east of the lodge.
I seem to recall Albert Pike and others being clear that the Blazing Star is Sirius. Sirius is the brightest star in the night sky and traditionally associated with The Widow Isis.
In our ritual we are told the Blazing Star at the head of Jacob's ladder has 7 points reminding us of the 7 liberal arts and sciences. This may be a typical veiling by association commonly used in Masonry.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by generalpike on Sept 21, 2005 0:35:11 GMT
Well if we accept that lecture then the Blazing Star is not the same as the star in the east of the lodge. The same lecture describes the Lodge thusly: Our Lodges are situated due E and W because all places of divine worship, as well as Mason's regular and well-formed , constitued Lodges, are, or ought to be , so situated: for which we assign three Masonic reasons: first the Sun, the Glory of the Lord , rises in the E and sets in the West,; second , learning originated in the E, and thence spread its benign influence to the W; the third, last and grand reason which is too long to be entered upon now is explained in the course of our Lectures,which I hope you will have many opportunities of hearing. I seem to recall Albert Pike and others being clear that the Blazing Star is Sirius. Sirius is the brightest star in the night sky and traditionally associated with The Widow Isis. He did indeed as did Foster Bailey, however, Mackey, Ward, Macoy and Ward (all as eminent) don't appear to agree with the concept. In our ritual we are told the Blazing Star at the head of Jacob's ladder has 7 points reminding us of the 7 liberal arts and sciences. This may be a typical veiling by association commonly used in Masonry. Here's a difference then, in ours the ladder leads to an Ethereal Mansion veiled from mortal eyes by the starry firmament, emblematically depicted here by seven stars (the ones around the Moon), which have an allusion to as many regularly made Masons, without which number no Lodge is perfect. GP
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Post by hollandr on Sept 21, 2005 1:08:19 GMT
>the ladder leads to an Ethereal Mansion veiled from mortal eyes by the starry firmament, emblematically depicted here by seven stars (the ones around the Moon), which have an allusion to as many regularly made Masons, without which number no Lodge is perfect.
I agree with that.
The tricky thing (veiling) is that there are 2 starry mansions referred to there.
One is in the solar system so the 7 spirits before the throne of God (Revelation of St John) are the spirits of the 7 sacred planets (not all planets are sacred) including Venus. These are the 7 Masons who make our lodges perfect if they visit. (veiling occurs by linking them to the tradition having a minimum of 7 masons for a lodge - which tradition is probably based on the 7 spirits anyway)
The 7 spirits are represented by the 7 stars on the EA TB.
But there is another relevant group of 7 stars - the Pleiades - 7 sisters. On some EA TBs you will see that there is a specific layout for the 7 stars. If they were planets in the solar system they should be in a straight line - as seen from earth - looking across the plane in which the inner planets orbit.
But commonly the 7 stars are represented as a pot and handle or a square plus another 3. This arguably is a reference to the 7 sisters also known as the Jewel Box because they look a bit like an outline of a box with an open lid
The 7 sisters contain Alcyone, the sun around which our sun rotates. So that if there were a temple in the solar system then a line from Alcyone would be a plumbline and Alcyone would always be at the midheaven for that temple
Cheers
Russell
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Post by generalpike on Sept 21, 2005 8:01:36 GMT
Interesting take.
GP
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