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Post by whistler on Jan 24, 2005 4:05:09 GMT
Noticed whilst doing a little Ritual Homework "It must be clearley understood that only regularley exalted Royal Arch Masons who have passed the Veils and can prove themselves as E.M...., may be admitted as visitors during the working of this ritual. Those who have been exalted in English Chapters which do not work the V...s, are not eligible for admission ...." Do the Scottish Lodges have the Degree of Excellant Masters complete with veils
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 24, 2005 4:37:20 GMT
I think they do Whistler. Now I am not sure if the Scots RA also have this prohibition on English RA Companions (apart from Bristol) attending. One day I intend to go to a Scots Chapter and attain that Degree.
This is all the more reason for English RA to come into line with the others and re-introduce Passing of the Veils and I hope that, once the present changes to RA here in England have settled down Supreme Grand Chapter might consider this.
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ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
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Post by ruffashlar on Jan 24, 2005 7:27:49 GMT
I'm backed by the shack of a soul boss most turnin' stormin' sound o'soul ! - Dave & Ansel Collins
Hello, Brethren. As the dead fish said: Long time, no sea.
"Do the Scottish Lodges have the Degree of Excellant Masters complete with veils ?"
I can happily confirm that they do. Since last we communicated (two computer deaths and an email-eating spyware later) I have attained the Degree of Excellent Master myself.
Very strange it is, too, to spend ten or fifteen minutes putting up different coloured shower curtains on a succession of football goalmouths - while still the Candidate! Well, why have a dog and bark yourself?, I suppose.
In Scotland, the Arch is administered through Mark Lodge; however, there is a long-standing agreement that Scottish Craft Lodges can mount Mark Ceremonials as part of the Craft system. This means that, prior to entering the Arch, a Scottish Mark Master Mason need only Affiliate to a Mark Lodge before being allowed to progress through the Veils to the rank of E.M.
Actually, I'm due to become a Royal Arch Mason this Wednesday. It's all go, innit?!
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Post by whistler on Jan 24, 2005 8:39:00 GMT
Ruff, I am so pleased you have been through the veils it means after you have joined HRA, and if you ever visited down under you will be able to attend on of our HRA meetings i would like that As always you jest Ruff but I am sure the significance of those veils were not lost on you - and on Wednesday when the Blindfold is removed the splendour, the power and the beauty that will be before you is truely magnificent to behold I wish you well for Wednesday _ unfortunately I haven't mastered astral Travel on demand otherwise I would attend your special night
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Post by middlepillar on Jan 24, 2005 8:51:32 GMT
Ruff
Great to see you back (not to be confused with glad to see your back!) ;D
Whistler
You know how I feel about the loss of The Passing of the veils ceremony to English RA (Apart from Bristol).
However I have several friends who have sojourned up to Scotland and with out exception they have all taken the Excellent Masters Degree and 'joined the Chapter of thier Hosts) So they could attend HRA In Scotland. It is never a problem because the 3 Grand Lodges work very closely together (UGLE, Scotland & Ireland).
I unfortunatley have not taken the Passing ceremony which is a great shame for me personally.
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Post by hollandr on Jan 24, 2005 10:22:46 GMT
Folks
Those of us who have been through the Veils may see them as somewhat quaint and not too profound.
But I recall a woman who had had many years in HRA, acting in the position in the 2nd veil one evening. After the candidate had passed through the Veils she went to step out of the flimsy curtain along the open gap ahead of her.
Then she got lost. She said she was in some place that bore no resemblance to the lodge room and it was perhaps half a minute before she reconnected to the physical world.
So while the Veils seem trivial I suspect that they are not.
Hence perhaps the refusal of chapters of HRA to accept RA Masons who have not gone through the Veils.
Cheers
Russell
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ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
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Post by ruffashlar on Jan 24, 2005 14:38:46 GMT
Perhaps this may indicate why Passing the Veils has been dropped in England: certain discerning Esoterists have realised it can, under the right circumstances, trigger the opening of inner veils to internal levels.
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Post by whistler on Jan 25, 2005 0:47:32 GMT
Perhaps this may indicate why Passing the Veils has been dropped in England: certain discerning Esoterists have realised it can, under the right circumstances, trigger the opening of inner veils to internal levels. May also be that they are just too lazy to put the veils up..
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Jan 25, 2005 5:45:49 GMT
Masonry teaches by Allegory and symbolism. Jung taught us about architypes.
The veils are one of the Most Powerfull Moments masonry has, to instill into your consciousness, a realisation that we are dealing with more than just the MUNDANE WORLD.
You have to experience things to gain an appreciation of the Real content, which is why the HRA is such a force in masonic education, and this of necessity requires the veils.
We are all brought up with fairy stories, nursery rhymes , old wives tales; but when you see some of these things explained thru' masonry their REAL meaning is revealed.
Far more effective than the telling and far more lasting in the cosciousness.
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Post by hollandr on Jan 25, 2005 12:56:41 GMT
Does anyone know the origin of the Veils?
HRA seems to have Sumerian masonry (in the east), Jewish Masonry in the body of the chapter and is it Hindu (planes) in the Veils?
I cannot relate the Veils to the Qabalah as the ritual seems to relate them to the planes as used in the Hindu tradition.
Any thoughts?
Russell
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ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
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Post by ruffashlar on Jan 25, 2005 16:54:27 GMT
May also be that they are just too lazy to put the veils up..
That too ;D
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 25, 2005 17:01:54 GMT
Having had to lay out Lodges as a Tyler and assisting in other Orders I don't think laziness has anything to do with it. As Bristol alone retains this part of the Ritual down here in England I see it being the hand of the egregious Duke of Sussex.
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ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
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Post by ruffashlar on Jan 25, 2005 17:16:25 GMT
I meant it as a joke. Up here, the Candidate has to do the setting-up.
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 25, 2005 17:22:12 GMT
Interesting, in the old days the Candidate was give a bucket and mop and had to wash away the lines drawn on the floor by the Tyler. Hogarth's famous painting shows the WM in Tricorn Hat and Tyler carrying mop and bucket coming home from a meeting.
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Post by whistler on Jan 25, 2005 18:11:49 GMT
I meant it as a joke. Up here, the Candidate has to do the setting-up. Ah another difference - for a candidate their night is special to them and they are do not see anthing of the lodge until they enter at the begining of their ceremony.
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ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
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Post by ruffashlar on Jan 25, 2005 23:49:42 GMT
When I say the Candidate has to do the setting-up, naturally he doesn't do it all by himself. Somebody has to tell him which curtain goes where - it's no good hanging a red curtain next to a blue one - and to make sure he doesn't impale himself accidentally on a curtain-pole or whatever. (You know Candidates! Well, I've been one often enough: talk about Some Widows Do 'Ave 'Em.)
The idea is to demystify the Arch, to set the tone, which in Scotland at least is really very informal compared to the Craft. I say informal: that's even more informal than the Scottish Craft already is. I think there's a feeling that it's the formality that puts people off the Craft. Equally, some in Craft resent the way the Arch seems to vampirise their members. Once the Chapter gets a hold of them, they never seem to come back.
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Post by waynecowley on Jan 26, 2005 8:13:17 GMT
Once the Chapter gets a hold of them, they never seem to come back. That's an interesting observation - around here from what I have experienced those who are active in Chapter are equally active in their Craft lodge - sometimes moreso than those who are not in Chapter Wayne
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 26, 2005 8:51:33 GMT
That is interesting Comp Wayne. I attended a Chapter Meeting last year in London where the VGO stated that a report for SGC had found that many Brethren here in England joined RA Chapter quite soon after doing their Third in Craft then either dropped out finding it not to their taste, or contrarywise joined as it was needed to qualify them for many of the Higher Degrees such as RSM, KTs etc, but then took little active part in RA thereafter.
I'm glad to say that I do participate in RA and enjoy this Degree for its own sake and neither as a part of anything else nor merely as a stepping stone to the Higher Degrees I am also in.
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Post by waynecowley on Jan 26, 2005 10:24:17 GMT
I would agree that there are many who find it is not to their taste and do not stay long or who see it as a stepping stone, often to KT. However, I was commenting on those who have taken an active role in light of Chapter in the light of ruff's comments on losing brethren from Craft to Royal Arch
Wayne
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 26, 2005 10:27:37 GMT
Yes, in that case Wayne you could well be right. I have found that often those holding an Office in Craft such as DC or Secretary will also do a similar job, DC or Scribe E in RA etc and be quite active in both.
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