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Post by lauderdale on Nov 26, 2007 23:47:20 GMT
Bro Devout. When last year I decided to change Affiliation from UGLE to LDH , I first Resigned in writing from UGLE and all my Malecraft Memberships and then joined LDH. Accordingly any threat to expel me for joining LDH would have been totally redundant and a total waste of effort and would have been ignored by me as I was no longer under their Jurisdiction having Resigned.
This is a purely personal view and only relates to myself but I did not consider it right to be in both Masonic Bodies at the same time.
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Post by lauderdale on Nov 26, 2007 23:52:18 GMT
Bro Jeff, are Halcyon and Euclid Lodges now part of the Grand Orient of the USA?
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Post by brandt on Nov 27, 2007 1:32:08 GMT
Euclid Lodge is its own entity. At this time we are qutie intrigued by the Grand Orient of the USA and what it represents. Our next regular meeting is in January. The Brothers will vote then to be a part of the Grand Orient of the United States. Until then, Euclid is just on its own. The Lodge will decide. I will make certain that everyone is informed of Euclid's decision. I can promise though that the decision will be discussed and it will reflect the will of the lodge.
I know what I would like to do. Let's see what the rest of the Brothers want to do. We are in delicate times.
Brandt
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Post by devoutfreemason on Nov 27, 2007 1:48:42 GMT
Bro Devout. When last year I decided to change Affiliation from UGLE to LDH , I first Resigned in writing from UGLE and all my Malecraft Memberships and then joined LDH. Accordingly any threat to expel me for joining LDH would have been totally redundant and a total waste of effort and would have been ignored by me as I was no longer under their Jurisdiction having Resigned. This is a purely personal view and only relates to myself but I did not consider it right to be in both Masonic Bodies at the same time. Brother lauderdale, I guess it is hard to relate with my position 100% having not gone through it. I look at myself demiting as an admission of guilt (specific to my case only, not anyone else's) and I did nothing wrong. They can proceed how they wish at this point. God Bless
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Post by penfold on Nov 27, 2007 7:49:47 GMT
It does seem quite antagonistic to publicly declare yourself to be at odds with published ordinances of an organisation and yet staunchly defend one's right to remain a member? Surely one would prefer to have a clear conscience as opposed to knowingly causing distress to other masons by one's actions? It seems wrong to me not to follow up words with actions, I know I couldn't remain in an organisation that caused me as much unhappiness with their MO as is being claimed
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Post by lauderdale on Nov 27, 2007 11:01:10 GMT
Bro Devout, I read what you say. I personally would not consider Demitting, or as we would say here in the UK Resignation, to be any admission of guilt. In my own case I found myself to be at variance with my previous affiliation for a number of reasons , the principal of which being that UGLE did not and probably never will admit Women to its Ranks, although there were other very important issues, some of which could well be similar to your own objections to your (former) Grand Lodge.
As I say I Resigned before joining my new affiliation, not as an admission of guilt as there was no guilt to admit, but as I felt that it was the correct thing to do. I could see no benefit to anyone in staying a Member of UGLE, which to me would have been living a lie as it no longer meant anything to me. I wanted a clean break, a fresh start.
One must follow one's own Light, and I wish you well in your new Masonic Body.
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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 27, 2007 14:36:57 GMT
Bros. Lauderdale & Penfold,
Due to the increasing levels of corruption and injustice in the mainstream American system (i.e. West Virginia, etc. ) it is becoming a badge of honor to be expelled for standing your moral ground.
We are witnessing a sad period for Masonry but it won't last for long. Things are changing everywhere beneath the surface. The Grand Lodges no longer have any real control. Brothers are meeting secretly outside of their lodges and building the future.
Jeff
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Post by leonardo on Nov 27, 2007 14:41:19 GMT
Bro. Leo, The Grand Orient of the United States will have an open door policy towards all Masons. Our aim is the brotherhood of all human beings. You'll be welcome in all of our lodges Bro. Leo. Jeff Thank you Bro. Jeff. Next time I am in the States, hopefully in 2009, it would be a pleasure to meet you at some point.
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Post by penfold on Nov 27, 2007 15:25:02 GMT
Bros. Lauderdale & Penfold, Due to the increasing levels of corruption and injustice in the mainstream American system (i.e. West Virginia, etc. ) it is becoming a badge of honor to be expelled for standing your moral ground. We are witnessing a sad period for Masonry but it won't last for long. Things are changing everywhere beneath the surface. The Grand Lodges no longer have any real control. Brothers are meeting secretly outside of their lodges and building the future. Jeff Time will tell bro jeff, time will tell. In ten years time I do hope to see the invitations dropping thru the door for the celebration party!
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vtmason
Member
Running Dog Lackey
Posts: 251
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Post by vtmason on Nov 27, 2007 17:29:05 GMT
What about for criminal or dishonest acts such as fraud, Jeff?
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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 27, 2007 17:42:52 GMT
Suspected criminals, other than traffic violations and minor offenses, will be tried before a jury of their peers and, if found guilty, expelled through due process. No brother will be presumed guilty, and all will be afforded due process.
Jeff
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Post by penfold on Nov 28, 2007 7:31:01 GMT
I'm quite glad we don't have masonic trials like these under UGLE, not sure how comfortable I would be sitting in judgement on someone.
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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 28, 2007 15:21:35 GMT
Bro. Penfold,
How does the UGLE deal with criminals and issues involving expulsion or suspension?
Perhaps there is a better way to approach this.
Jeff
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Post by lauderdale on Nov 28, 2007 15:47:02 GMT
Not wishing to pre-empt Bro Penfold but UGLE don't have Masonic Trials and from what I understand about them from Fora such as this I am right glad about that.
The only case I personally know about was a man in a Lodge I once used to visit on a regular basis. He was found guilty in the Magistrates Court of "Indecent Exposure" and was fined. The matter was reported to the PGM who suspended him from all Masonic Activities for a year. The Lodge in question, after a debate from which all Visitors were asked to leave, called upon him to resign (demit) which he did. I do not know if he subsequently tried to join another Lodge .
If someone is convicted of a serious Criminal Offence as I understand matters it is the duty of the Lodge Secretary if aware of the fact, to report this to either the Provincial Grand Secretary or the Grand secretary at Gt Queen Street. They will then pass this to the appropriate Committee which deals with Discipline, That Committee has Judges and Lawers who are also Masons as members. Usually if the matter is serious enough the Brother in question is "Invited to Resign" If they do not do so they will be formally expelled. They do have the right to attend and be represented but many do not exercise that right, which would be a bit difficult if they were in jail!
This process is quite dispassionate and objective in its operation and I feel is the correct way to deal with such , any complaint being made to Higher Authority not brought up in the Lodge where personal bias, friendship or emnity could cloud the Judgement of the Brethren
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Post by billmcelligott on Nov 28, 2007 16:17:50 GMT
The old trusty 181a
181. (a) Any Lodge may by resolution exclude any
member for sufficient cause, provided that
(i) a notice in writing shall have been served
upon him by Registered Post, the envelope being plainly
marked on the outside ‘Private and Confidential’, not
less than fourteen days before the meeting at which the
complaint is to be considered, together with particulars
of the complaint made against him, stating the time and
place appointed for the meeting and that he may attend
to answer the complaint in person or make answer in
writing if he prefers.
(ii) not less than ten days’ notice in writing
shall also have been served on the members of the Lodge
of the intention to propose such a resolution.
(b) The notices shall be considered duly served if
sent by post to the last known address of each member.
(c) The name of the Brother concerned shall not
appear in the notice served upon the members of the
Lodge, but must be made known to the Brethren when
the resolution is moved at the meeting.
(d) The voting shall be by ballot.
(e) The resolution shall not be carried unless twothirds
of the members present vote in favour of it.
(f) If the resolution is carried, the exclusion shall
be effective forthwith.
(g) The name of every Brother excluded from a
Lodge, with the cause of the exclusion, shall forthwith be
sent to the Grand Secretary and, if the Lodge be within a
Metropolitan Area, Province or District, also to the
Metropolitan, Provincial or District Grand Secretary.
(h) When the cause of exclusion is non-payment
of subscriptions for a period shorter than that prescribed
in Rule 148 (if so provided in the Lodge’s by-laws), the
Grand Secretary, and if the Lodge be within a
Metropolitan Area, Province or District,
theMetropolitan, Provincial or District Grand Secretary
shall be notified if the Brother concerned subsequently
pays the arrears of subscription.
(j) In this Rule to “exclude” a Brother means to
terminate the Brother’s membership of the Lodge, and
the terms “exclude”, “excluded”, and “exclusion’’ shall
be construed accordingly.
N.B. the term expelled is used only where a Brother is removed
from the Craft by the Grand Lodge.
182. (a) If the Grand Master be satisfied that any
Brother has been excluded without due cause or that the
provisions of Rule 181 have not been complied with, he
may, either of his own motion or on the complaint of the
Brother who has been excluded, order him to be
reinstated, and may suspend any Lodge which fails to
comply with that order.
(b) A Metropolitan, Provincial or District Grand
Master has the same power within his Metropolitan Area,
Province or District.
(c) A complaint under this Rule must be made
within three months after the exclusion of the Brother
who makes it.
(d) No appeal shall lie from any decision of the
Grand Master under this Rule, but an appeal may be
made under Rule 185 against a decision of a
Metropolitan, Provincial or District Grand Master if the
Grand Registrar shall be of opinion that such decision is
one that requires further consideration.
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Post by antoninus9 on Nov 28, 2007 19:49:39 GMT
Bros. Lauderdale and Bill,
I like the way the UGLE handles things and will send this information to the GOUSA. If we want to create a better Masonry we need to discover things that work and discard things that don't.
Thanks for your input.
Jeff
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Post by lauderdale on Nov 28, 2007 22:05:03 GMT
I have to give credit where it is due. This is one aspect that UGLE is rather good at handling. Bear in mind that amongst the thousands that range under its banners there are many Judges, Lawyers and others with Legal and Jurisprudence training and experience.
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Post by 2 BOWL CAIN on Nov 30, 2007 7:33:13 GMT
any one have info on this? www.stjohnslodgeatohio.org/COMING SOON St. John’s Lodge at Ohio ---------------------------------- United States of America Welcome to the official website of St John’s Lodge at Ohio, the first regularly constituted Lodge in the United States of America, working under the authority of the Grand Lodge of All England at York, the Ancient and Honourable Society and Fraternity of Freemasons meeting since time immemorial in the City of York. The Grand Lodge at York is the original exponent of genuine Anglo-Saxon Freemasonry and is the governing body for Freemasonry in England, Wales, the Channel Islands and its Districts and Lodges Overseas. St. John’s Lodge at Ohio, United States of America, was inaugurated under the Grand-Master Mason’s hand, the 21st day of November in the year 2007. This historic event was hosted by the Victoria Theatre Association, located at 138 North Main Street, Dayton, Ohio. The aim of St. John’s Lodge is to become a focal point for individuals in the United States who are or have ever been interested in strict observance of Freemasonry. We hold ourselves to the highest standards and most ancient principals and landmarks of Freemasonry, working within due bounds of the time immemorial charter issued to us by King Athelstan during the first Grand Assembly of Masons in the year A.D. 926. We make every attempt to hold the strictest obedience to the oldest verifiable Masonic doctrine available. Our overall goal is to practice Freemasonry in its most pure and original manifestation. We do not comment upon or challenge the practices of any other Masonic body in the world, but cater to those free thinkers in our society who want to experience Masonry the way our ancient Brethren did. Our Lodges are not divided by race, social status, age or geography, but rather are bound together by common values, like-mindedness and interests. Therefore, if you are an individual who is in search of more light, than you need only knock and the door of Masonic brotherhood will open to you.
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Post by penfold on Nov 30, 2007 8:21:52 GMT
No, is there any date on the pronouncement? I'm a bit confused as to why GLAE would want to constitute a lodge in the US.....
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Post by penfold on Nov 30, 2007 8:25:55 GMT
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