bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on Jun 8, 2007 7:15:19 GMT
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Post by billmcelligott on Jun 8, 2007 7:52:00 GMT
I sell it
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Post by corab on Jun 9, 2007 23:43:27 GMT
Yes -- it's excellent. Well worth reading.
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Post by maat on Jun 14, 2007 23:48:32 GMT
When you think about it.... someone could write a book on the information that comes through this Forum... Any takers? What could we call it... "Light in Unlikely Places?" Maat
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Post by gaslight on Sept 2, 2007 14:26:14 GMT
Yes to both questions. Why do you ask?
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imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
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Post by imakegarb on Sept 4, 2007 14:08:14 GMT
Bro. Ma'at, I'm in on the book ;D
And I've read this one. Very, very excellent.
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Post by corab on Sept 5, 2007 21:41:33 GMT
I think we ought to call it "The candle underneath Ma'at's table" -- and count me in.
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Post by maat on Sept 6, 2007 0:15:52 GMT
I think we ought to call it "The candle underneath Ma'at's table" -- and count me in. Wondered why I was hot ;D Clearly my command of english/grammar is not up to the job... any takers? I have just put the thought out there that 'the one' who is up to this task will see this post and 'know' it they that will rise to the challenge. As our Forum is 'different' it will have something to contribute to Freemasonry. Maat
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Post by gaslight on Sept 8, 2007 2:29:10 GMT
I have just put the thought out there that 'the one' who is up to this task will see this post and 'know' it they that will rise to the challenge. As our Forum is 'different' it will have something to contribute to Freemasonry. What did you have in mind, Maat? The Temple That Never Sleeps is a kind of sandwich, with data and comments from the Masonic Light group survey on the inside, and some general discussion on the outside. I found it a little disappointing. The comments from the survey respondents were interesting, but tended to repeat themselves. The data was a bit thin: not enough responses to allow extrapolation to other groups or e-Masonry in general. And the discussion sections contained just a few too many gratuitous digs at some of Bro Gerald's favorite targets. I don't have enough time to keep track of recent publications in the same field, but I did come across one interesting volume on e-Paganism, which covered dozens of online initiatives: Douglas E. Cowan. Cyberhenge: Modern Pagans on the Internet. And talking of e-Paganism, is anyone on this board familiar with Stryder's Masonic and Pagan boards? He seemed to run into all kinds of problems and eventually closed down the Masonic sections.
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Post by corab on Sept 10, 2007 11:33:32 GMT
And talking of e-Paganism, is anyone on this board familiar with Stryder's Masonic and Pagan boards? He seemed to run into all kinds of problems and eventually closed down the Masonic sections. Hadn't heard of it, but I do know e-Paganism up close and personal. The huge problem you have there is that it lacks the controlled common ground that we have in freemasonry. Taking just Wicca, an initiatory tradition with very strong masonic influences -- these days there are 100s of different 'traditions' as a result of that lack of a central point of control. Someone in the 70s decided it would be a good idea to break the Oath and publish the secrets, and since then it's all gone downhill. Every spotty teenager who can read can pick up a book from the shelf, "self-initiate" and call himself a Wiccan these days -- much assisted by "internet initiations" and "cyber covens" (which do actually confer degrees). Anyone who has even an iota of understanding of what goes on energetically in initiations will need no explanation as to why much of my time in the past was spent getting these kids back on track again. Aaaaahhh ... rant over. Much better now, thank you.
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Post by gaslight on Sept 10, 2007 13:08:41 GMT
Taking just Wicca, an initiatory tradition with very strong masonic influences -- these days there are 100s of different 'traditions' as a result of that lack of a central point of control. Yes, that fragmentation is covered in the book I referenced. About the 'strong Masonic influences' -- which came first, the Wicca or the Masonry? Let me rephrase that or, better still, back up and explain. A few years ago I read a book called Inside A Magical Lodge by John Michael Greer. Unless I completely misunderstood the gist, it seemed to be suggesting that anyone wishing to create a new 'magical' community could do no better than adopt the time-proven structure of a Masonic lodge. This is where I begin to get confused. If the magical tradition (would that include Wicca?) dates back ages and ages, did it inspire the creation of Masonry? If it did, is it now returning to its roots? There seem to be several chicken-and-egg scenarios nested in this. Glad to have been of help. The bill is on its way. ;D Hope you had a great weekend.
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Post by corab on Sept 12, 2007 17:12:41 GMT
Yes, that fragmentation is covered in the book I referenced. About the 'strong Masonic influences' -- which came first, the Wicca or the Masonry? The latter. Wicca is an amalgam of folk traditions (allegedly a New Forest coven that survived throughout the dark ages into present time) and freemasonry as viewed from an EA's understanding of it. It was was founded by Gerald Brosseau Gardner, whom is alleged to have been a co-mason, but I have yet to find evidence of it, and I am deeply involved in my Federation's historical research. The only tangible evidence of his masonic status is the entry of his name as an Initiate of a UGLE lodge, and I wish I could recall my resource for that. Probably Heselton. Gardner did, however, move in interesting circles and was extensively exposed to Theosophy, Golden Dawn, and Thelemic schools of thought -- the latter two of which are, of course, deeply influence by freemasonry. Depends on the nature of the community. Since the secrets of Wicca became "open source", new magic(k)al traditions sprout up faster than fungus in a damp cellar. I should know, because I was initiated into one of those. A cross between alchemy, qabalah and the combined influences of Gardnerian and Alexandrian Wicca with a lineage as muddled a stagnant pool of silty water. When neo-pagans speak of"magic(k)al traditions", particular *new* ones, that's what they're referring to: the next new kid on the block who should've paid more attention at Science -- might have taught him/her what *not* to mix. If you're after "high magic(k)"; after a ceremonial tradition, then yes, seeking inspiration from freemasonry would provide an extremely solid basis -- as witnessed in the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and Thelema / Ordo Templi Orientis. If your after a Granny Weatherwax-type tradition, highly structured ceremonial is the last thing you want -- the two don't go together. Not even in Wicca. Well, that's a very interesting point, particularly in view of my recent visit to the British Museum. There I found a little Egyptian statuette of the Priestess giving Dieu Garde, and images of Anubis giving the hailing sign of the FC. Lauderdale's 1st degree ceremony does make reference to Egyptian origins of freemasonry, and it is common knowledge that ritual magic was part and parcel of that society, so I find it entirely possible that elements of such magical traditions combined with the likes of (sacred) geometry, adapted to the myths and legends of the next ruling race and via the intervention of the knights of the north (pun intended!) found its way into these colder climes, to encounter the Enlightenment, the "Invisible College" and be transmuted into what we would recognise as craft freemasonry. Nah -- it's a spiral staircase;-) Always moving around the same core, but ever onwards and upwards.
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Post by gaslight on Sept 13, 2007 4:18:54 GMT
Cora: Many thanks for your detailed response to my questions about Wicca and Masonry. You covered just about everything, hence the lack of follow-up questions. Well, that's a very interesting point, particularly in view of my recent visit to the British Museum. There I found a little Egyptian statuette of the Priestess giving Dieu Garde, and images of Anubis giving the hailing sign of the FC. Know what? Years ago I did a lot of research in the BM and browsing the exhibits was my favorite way of taking the occasional break. Some of those exhibits became old friends and I miss them greatly. I think I know the Anubis statue to which you refer, but the Priestess doesn't register. Which dieu garde would that be? (PM me if you think the question inappropriate). Last week I received an invitation to a small exhibition of Egyptian antiquities discovered by a private archeological exhibition. Nothing like the scale of the BM, but one statue transfixed me and I spent most of my visit staring at it. A small wooden figure of a nude female, arms missing, feet chipped, surface dark with age. I couldn't figure out why I found it so fascinating. Maybe it was the contrast between the exaggerated length of the legs (straight from a fashion show catwalk) and the copious but saggy breasts. Some of those terms I recognize, others not. 'Recognize' means just that, I'm afraid. But I'll try to get up to speedover the next week or two. Knights of the North? Sounds like a bunch of bikers from Huddersfield. ;D
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Post by corab on Sept 14, 2007 17:52:50 GMT
Cora: Many thanks for your detailed response to my questions about Wicca and Masonry. You covered just about everything, hence the lack of follow-up questions. Entirely my pleasure -- as always answering questions requires me to challenge what I believe I know, and thus I learn more. Our 1st degree sign is, or so I'm told, somewhat more elaborate than that commonly used in UGLE. The Dieu Garde forms part of it; I will answer more fully by PM. I had a similar experience at the BM -- maybe you remember the statue in case: the seated Sekhmet (black basalt; no solar disk) in the aptly named Enlightenment Hall. She had me on my knees. For all around me, to all intents and purposes I merely knelt to read the plaque at her pedestal, but I have no qualms whatsoever in publicly admitting that I knelt willingly, in all humility and reverence for whatever presence emanated from that statue. A most humbling experience. He-he-he -- check out this link, and please read their report "Laudable Pursuit". I found myself agreeing with an awful lot they state in there. S&F, Cora
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Post by gaslight on Sept 15, 2007 5:28:09 GMT
He-he-he -- check out this link, and please read their report "Laudable Pursuit". I found myself agreeing with an awful lot they state in there. But presumably not the bit about 'Feminizing the Fraternity' being a pitfall. I downloaded a copy and read through it this afternoon. It covers issues that are perennial favorites on Masonic boards with a large US membership. Not much new there, and of limited interest to non-US Masons. But the parts about guarding the West Gate and curtailing the powers of GMs hit home.
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