giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Guénon
Feb 12, 2007 12:41:14 GMT
Post by giovanni on Feb 12, 2007 12:41:14 GMT
Brethren, I uploaded in my blog Bro. René Guénon's book Perspectives on Initiation. It is a pdf file. I deem it to be of fundamental importance. Of course, man can disagree with Bro. Guénon's ideas, but he should know them. For your benefit, this is the link: giovanni.diinoweb.com/files/please, download it!
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Guénon
Feb 19, 2007 19:02:44 GMT
Post by leonardo on Feb 19, 2007 19:02:44 GMT
Thank you Gio for the link. I will download this book and read it with great pleasure.
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Tamrin
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Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Guénon
Feb 25, 2007 2:18:17 GMT
Post by Tamrin on Feb 25, 2007 2:18:17 GMT
Here is a review I found: Perspectives On Initiation René Guénon, aperçus sur l’initiation 1946, 2004 sophia perennis, isbn 0900588322 In 48 short chapters, Guénon writes about (almost) every imaginable aspect of initiation. This book is very ‘Traditionalistic’ and Guénon keeps stressing the ‘authenticity’ or ‘regularity’ of initiatic movements. In the West he recognises only two: Freemasonry and the Compagnonnage (articles about both can be found in the articles-section). He is extremely strict about the ‘unbroken link’ since time immemorial and the fact that initiation is the transmission of ‘something spiritual’ (not ‘knowledge’ or ‘secret symbols’ or anything like that) that has been transmitted since the dawn of men by and to people worthy. All the rest are pseudo-esoteric groups, reversed- or counter-initiators, frauds and swindlers. Guénon is very harsch particularly to movements that were popular in his time, such as the Theosophical and Antroposophical Societies, neo-Rosicrucian movements, etc. Also he is quite critical about Freemasonry, but he thinks that Traditionalism and the elimination of ‘extras’ that were added during the course of time can save it. One thing about Guénon is that he keeps saying what is not ‘it’, what is wrong, who (however he seldom gives names or booktitles) are frauds, etc., but that (besides references to some currents, such as Freemasonry, the Compagnonnage, vague references to Islamic esoteric groups) you will not really learn what he really finds genuine and worthy. Aperçus reads in this regard a bit like Words To The Wise of Manly P. Hall (reviewed elsewhere) who wants to teach his readers how to recognise the frauds. Still chapter 5 is called “conditions for initiation”, chapter 10 “initiatic centers”, but do not expect a nice list with demands. I liked (and understood) the book better than when I first read it, and I can recommend it to anyone seriously interested in the subject or member of or looking for a so-called ‘initiatic organisation’. Aperçus is certainly no light literature and Guénon will definitely offend some people. Also he seemed to jump to conclusions a bit too rapidly, still have been very strict (not changing his conclusions easily) and not always too accurate. But of course Guénon was the primal Traditionalist, a man of massive knowledge and most of all experience so his works (and also this one) are of extremely high value. I suggest the differences of opinion regarding Guénon's work are akin to Prof. Passmore's observations in relation to Philosophy (it might also pertain to the perennial 'esoteric' vs 'mundane' debate elsewhere on the forum): The fact we have to live with is that if most British philosophers are convinced that Continental metaphysics is arbitrary, pretentious, and mind destroying, Continental philosophers are no less confident that British empiricism is philistine, pedestrian and soul destroying! I readily accept that the subject of Freemasonry exceeds the bounds of conventional rationality: However, without some good corroboration, I see no reason to accept all that Guénon espoused and all that Guénonians regurgitate on the subject. His example as a man—who, according to his editor, ( Studies in Freemasonry & the Compagnonnage, p.xi), also wrote for anti-masonic publications—fell short of one who might inspire confidence on the subject and his disdain for "the superstition of facts," leaves me wondering if the only standard he acknowledged was that of his own conceit. As lihin has shown, one simply cannot reason with a committed Guénonian. For example, when I demonstrated that women were artisans, despite Guénon’s contention ( Studies in Freemasonry & the Compagnonnage, p.55) that: The true reason for the absence of any feminine initiation in the contemporary West is that all the initiations it retains are based essentially on trades the exercise of which pertains exclusively to men ... lihin simply dismissed my proof, saying (MFOL / General / Females in Freemasonry / Reply #29): ... to clumsily imitate a famous author: Some female workers do not a mixed Craft make. YES THEY DO! Aristotle’s famous quote referred to subjects having different categories—birds and seasons—with swallows being an indirect sign of summer. In the case of artisans, female and male workers together, by definition, make a mixed craft. To say otherwise is to play fast and loose with language, logic and history: Such slack reasoning appears to be part and parcel of Guénonianity.
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Guénon
Feb 25, 2007 19:42:03 GMT
Post by lihin on Feb 25, 2007 19:42:03 GMT
Greetings Sisters and Brethren, Even during his lifetime Bro. René Guénon encountered misunderstandings, occasionally controversies and even a few polemics. As his traditional approach is so profoundly critical of many of the dearest notions of the modern age, the contrary would indeed be surprising. Bro. Guénon did indeed suggest solutions to the current age's problems. His book most directly addressing the solutions is Orient et Occident[/url], also available in an English translation East and West [/url]. As mentioned in yours truly's prior post, Bro. Guénon was in favour of female initiation, not necessarily in the form of co-Freemasonry. Bro. Tamrin's quotation should be placed in the context of the entire article. As yours truly understands the word proof, the evidence at Bro. Tamrin's website, e.g. reproductions showing some female workers in the Middle Ages, does not establish a chain leading to Bro. Tamrin's conclusions. For example, what if the woodcuts were based on artistic fantasies? Apparently Bro. Tamrin and yours truly will agree to disagree on some questions. The question raised by Bro. Tamrin about possible differences between Germanic and Latin mentalities is indeed interesting. It comes to mind in this respect that the AASR AFAIK is based mostly on French FM and that Bro. Albert Pike relied heavily on original French sources for his work on that Rite's rituals. FM Rites originating mainly in Germanic countries, e.g. the Swedish Rite and the Strict Templar Observance, tend to be Christian rather than universal.
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Tamrin
Member
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Posts: 3,586
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Guénon
Feb 25, 2007 21:01:16 GMT
Post by Tamrin on Feb 25, 2007 21:01:16 GMT
For the record, while my website does indeed feature illustrations, my article, to which I have been referring readers for proof, does not! If lihin had read it, he would know this.
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Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
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Guénon
Mar 2, 2007 11:22:34 GMT
Post by Tamrin on Mar 2, 2007 11:22:34 GMT
While reiterating that my article, to which I have been referring readers for proof, does not feature illustrations; here are a few from my website:
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