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Post by Lewis on Nov 13, 2004 13:00:08 GMT
Freemasonry is like a club where everyone is your friend, except that everyone really is your friend. Everyone in this club has been in the same position as you are in now. Everyone has been nervous of being rejected. Everyone has been apprehensive, if not scared sh*tless, by the uncertainty of joining this particular club. It's useless to deny there is a certain mystery about Freemasonry in people's minds, a tantalised suspicion of something or other. The mystery is there alright, because it's a mystery how anyone got that idea. There is in Freemasonry, as in everything, nothing at all to fear except fear itself. What there is, is light: by which Freemasons mean knowledge. Instead of ignorance, there is awareness. Instead of selfishness, there is friendship and brotherly love. Combat darkness with light, ignorance with love, and how can you lose?
credit to Ruff Ashlar for writing these words that were found elsewhere
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Post by taylorsman on Nov 14, 2004 8:58:44 GMT
Do you still stand by those words, Ruff, or have they been tempered by experience?
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ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
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Post by ruffashlar on Nov 21, 2004 13:01:33 GMT
I still believe in those words, just as I believe in Paradise, even though, of course, it is to be found nowhere on Earth; or at best, only fleetingly. That is the leaven in my idealism. The pinch of reality only makes palatable that which otherwise would taste too sweet, and an over-sugared pill can conceal the gall of poison. The poison which has always threatened Masonry is tyranny, the ugly hidden face of Mastery.
Tyranny is one of man's favourite toys: it glitters in glorious, forbidden colours, and the more he lavishes his care upon it, the deeper and more seductive those colours grow. To have power over another is the responsibility of authority, but very often it is also the reward of such responsibility. It is an evil thing, and there is no man who has never felt its allure. That is why we must stand guard against it in all its forms. We must impart knowledge freely, and extend the hand of friendship to all. Precisely because it is the vice of a Master, it behoves each Mason to prepare his heart for the test of it.
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Post by ingo on Nov 23, 2004 7:53:52 GMT
More than a club, I would say.... my symbol is the chain of union. If I meet a mason, I offer him my hand and my friendship. That is a deeper feeling, we all share the same initiations, the same experiences....
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Post by grimaldy on Jun 15, 2006 1:34:45 GMT
So Mr. Ruffashlar, your perception of power is quite accurate. As a mason, how do you explain the fact that so many prominent politicians are freemasons? Are these people who have simply succumbed to the allure as you express it or are they merely people who have not come to the realization that you have about political power?
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Post by lewfinnis on Jun 15, 2006 16:50:50 GMT
I think you would find it hard to name many current prominent politicians who are freemasons - they just don't have the time (and possibly the courage?).
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Post by grimaldy on Jun 19, 2006 0:08:15 GMT
Well Mr. Finnis, all of the past Presidents of the United States with the exception of one have all been freemasons. One became a mason shortly after he was elected. The Senate Majority leader is also a well known and active mason as are most members of congress. In most states the lists of state judges are virtual copies of the membership rolls of the masonic orders. I think Mr Ruffashlar put his finger right on something that very few persons who hold high governmental office acknowledge, although certainly are aware of it. That is not to say that freemasonry holds any special claims to the right or need for power over other people, but God knows that certainly that is what brings the particular individual to politics. I must say I was quite startled to see Mr. Ruffashlar express it so clearly. (Sorry about the delay in reply, but I could'nt find the thread). Grimaldy
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Post by taylorsman on Jun 19, 2006 4:20:51 GMT
I think you have it wrong there Grimaldy. Many US Presidents have been Freemasons but by no means all. Kennedy wasn't, nor I think was Carter. I don't think Ronnie Reagan was either. Clinton was a member of De Molay, but as far as I am aware did not join adult Freemasonry and both Bushes are in Skull and Bones a Fraternity with Masonic overtones but not actually part of Freemasonry. LBJ was Initiated but never progressed any further than the First Degree.
There is a list of Presidents who were On the Square. I post it here for you and for the information of others:-
Washington,Monroe,Jackson,Polk,Buchanan,Johnson,Garfield,McKinley,T. Roosevelt,Taft,Harding,F Roosevelt,Truman, and Ford
As far as the UK is concerned there are few of our Leading Politicians these days who are Freemasons. In the past this was not so, and indeed the former PGM of Essex, RW Bro Sir Neil Thorne was MP for Ilford South for many years, the late William Whitelaw who had been Home Secretary was a Grand Officer in Scottish Freemasonry and I can think of at least 5 other Masonic MPs but now know of only one Grand Officer in our present House of Commons, Tony Baldry, the Conservative MP for Banbury in Oxfordshire.
I also think you are away off in left field as the Yanks say on the "Conspiracy" aspect of your postings, especially as regards British Freemasonry, but your are fully entitled to your opinion.
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Post by grimaldy on Jun 20, 2006 2:43:58 GMT
Thank-you for your response Mr. Taylorman; I will check my references again as to past presidents. My source as to members of Congress including Mr. Trent Lott the Senate Majority Leader is the magazine Freemasonry Today. I am afraid I can not say I know anything about British Freemasonry, but I assume your observation has to do with my posting to Mr. Windtimber (conspiracy). Unfortunately there are ample reasons for Americans to be concerned about secret societies which seem to operate under the auspices of the government. You may remember that during the Reagan administration, the head of the White House Security Council was operating a clandestine war in Central America by selling American military hardware and using the proceeds to fund this private war. Never mind that the whole matter was specifically made unlawful by special Act of Congress. George Bush the younger on the other hand makes no bones about his disregard for the law, especially wiretap, kidnap and torture. Much of this appears to take place with unknown and unaccountable people operating under the cover of the government. As they say in America, just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean they are not out to get you. The positive aspect of Freemasonry however is its recent transparency, which serves to prevent in great measure the sort of speculation that secret societies draw on themselves. In many instances those members who bring great credit to themselves for their contributions to their families and their countries, are completely unknown as members of any particular fraternal organisation. On the other hand those persons who reflect no credit on themselves whatever seem to be the first to proclaim membership in one or another so-called brotherhood or fraternal organisation. Grimaldy
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jmd
Member
fourhares.com
Posts: 1,081
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Post by jmd on Jun 20, 2006 13:00:33 GMT
I fail to see the connection between there being groups of individuals who, whether in or without the government of a country, undertake clandestine or illegal activities, and the work undertaken by Freemasonry.
That the head of the USA's Whitehouse Security Council was illegitimately selling military equipment in Central America (ie, its neighbours) only shows that such activity goes on in many places where one would desire a high level of integrity.
It does not in the least point fingers of wrongdoing at Freemasonry.
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Post by grimaldy on Jun 21, 2006 2:03:42 GMT
Mr. JMD; It is not my intention to suggest that Freemasonry has anything to do with the problems that beset America at the present time. I was responding to a posting by Mr Windtimber about his observation that rural America seems to be unduly fixated on conspiracies, occult happenings, paranormal occurances, etc. That observation is probably quite valid, but has a kernel of reason behind it. As you are probably aware Freemasonry for many years also carried the brunt of much criticism and opprobrium simply because it was a closed or secret society, By adopting a policy of public good works, and opening its rituals to public view and comment, much of that criticism has been defused. My suggestion is that the obvious cure for paranoia is sunshine. Grimaldy
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Post by maat on Jun 21, 2006 3:17:47 GMT
.....and there was Light Maat
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Post by grimaldy on Jun 23, 2006 2:30:04 GMT
......in the beginning was the Word
Grimaldy
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Post by JRDennis on Jul 7, 2006 19:44:34 GMT
Trent Lott, of Mississippi, hasn't been the Senate Majority Leader for over 5 years, perhaps you should bother to get up to date in the happenings of America. You may also remember that prior to the Iran-Contra problem, the United States had pledged itself to bringing democracy to Central America and to fight the communist there. The disagreement was when the Democratic led Congress cut funding, with a very narrow majority, as to whether the US should keep its promises or not. The Current President has acted within the powers of the Executive as authorized by the Constitution and previous laws and precedents, perhaps you should bother to get more reliable information than the "DailyKos" and other Democrat sites. Thank-you for your response Mr. Taylorman; I will check my references again as to past presidents. My source as to members of Congress including Mr. Trent Lott the Senate Majority Leader is the magazine Freemasonry Today. I am afraid I can not say I know anything about British Freemasonry, but I assume your observation has to do with my posting to Mr. Windtimber (conspiracy). Unfortunately there are ample reasons for Americans to be concerned about secret societies which seem to operate under the auspices of the government. You may remember that during the Reagan administration, the head of the White House Security Council was operating a clandestine war in Central America by selling American military hardware and using the proceeds to fund this private war. Never mind that the whole matter was specifically made unlawful by special Act of Congress. George Bush the younger on the other hand makes no bones about his disregard for the law, especially wiretap, kidnap and torture. Much of this appears to take place with unknown and unaccountable people operating under the cover of the government. As they say in America, just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean they are not out to get you. The positive aspect of Freemasonry however is its recent transparency, which serves to prevent in great measure the sort of speculation that secret societies draw on themselves. In many instances those members who bring great credit to themselves for their contributions to their families and their countries, are completely unknown as members of any particular fraternal organisation. On the other hand those persons who reflect no credit on themselves whatever seem to be the first to proclaim membership in one or another so-called brotherhood or fraternal organisation. Grimaldy
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Post by windtimber on Jul 8, 2006 0:51:50 GMT
Mr. JMD; It is not my intention to suggest that Freemasonry has anything to do with the problems that beset America at the present time. I was responding to a posting by Mr Windtimber about his observation that rural America seems to be unduly fixated on conspiracies, occult happenings, paranormal occurances, etc. That observation is probably quite valid, but has a kernel of reason behind it. As you are probably aware Freemasonry for many years also carried the brunt of much criticism and opprobrium simply because it was a closed or secret society, By adopting a policy of public good works, and opening its rituals to public view and comment, much of that criticism has been defused. My suggestion is that the obvious cure for paranoia is sunshine. Grimaldy Holy Crap - I just saw this post from a few weeks ago! To clarify, which shouldn't be necessary at all if someone actually READS the post to which he refers, I was commenting on the wackiness of the conspiracy buffs appearing on late night talk radio. Yes, I do live in the heart of rural America. However, my neighbors and I ARE NOT "unduly fixated on conspiracies, occult happenings, paranormal occurances, etc." I made no such "observation" and, the reality is, the average folks know what most of this talk radio really is - over the top hyperbole and "infotainment" masquerading as something serious. Geez...talk about taking things out of context!
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Post by grimaldy on Jul 19, 2006 1:18:52 GMT
To JR Dennis; Trent Lott is still the United States Senator for Mississippi as of today, though isn't he? His public remarks certainly brought no credit to himself or the Senate; losing his post as senate majority leader was a very small price to pay. The Central American problem as you term it, was a rather flagrant violation of several United States laws, specifically the Bolan Amendment, HR2786 amend 461. That amendment specifically forbade the expenditure of any funds, directly or indirectly to fund the contra war in Nicaragua. President Reagan thought it would be a clever idea to sell American military equipment, arms specifically, to the Iranians ( yes the same group that seized the US embassy a few years before) and use the proceeds to fund his war in Central America. Sales of military arms is itself a federal crime as any raw army recruit would know, but a certain lieutenant colonel Oliver North professed he did not know that. If you think that the current occupant of the White House acts within the laws and Constitution of the United States, the Supreme Court of the United States among other reputable bodies such as the International Court of Justice, happen to think otherwise. But I generally observe that an ideologue is not interested in such matters as truth or fact. Grimaldy
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Post by grimaldy on Jul 19, 2006 1:20:25 GMT
To Mr. Windtimber; Sorry Mr. Windtimber, but you wrote what you wrote and the context lies there. Grimaldy
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Post by windtimber on Jul 19, 2006 18:56:07 GMT
Sorry Mr. Windtimber, but you wrote what you wrote and the context lies there. It's probably pointless to respond, but sometimes a joust with a windmill is entertaining. Here, in it's entirety, is what I wrote about Art Bell et. al., and to which Grimaldy refers in his earlier post on this thread: Last time I listened to this bunch was about 7 or 8 months ago driving home from southern Kansas late into a dark summer Saturday night. It was great company on scratchy AM radio, no moon, deserted country roads, and small sleepy towns at 2:30 a.m.
It was amazing what I learned of alien incidents, conspiracies to suppress nuclear fusion technology, warehouses full of interstellar spacecraft, cabals intent on world domination, and the number of odd fellows with no last name who have been deeply involved with so many covert government agencies!
I suppose, relative to the link in the message starting this thread, that the fact that Kenneth Kleinknecht was long involved with NASA and with Martin-Marietta, he donated his collection of space memorabilia to the Scottish Rite S.J., and Fred Kleinknecht worked his way to the top of the Scottish Rite S.J., all makes for fine conspiracy fodder. The beauty of all of it is that, in true conspiracy fashion, if you can't really prove anything at all, it has to be true - because the truth is, obviously, being suppressed!
Ain't it grand to be paranoid? Or are these guys just plain nuts? How those comments can be extrapolated into an observation on my part "that rural America seems to be unduly fixated on conspiracies, occult happenings, paranormal occurances, etc." is beyond my comprehension. Apparently Grimaldy uses language somewhat differently than I do and could not grasp my sardonic tone.
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Munro
Member
Lodge St. Andrew Livingston Station No.1587
Posts: 27
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Post by Munro on Dec 17, 2006 11:35:34 GMT
More than a club, I would say.... my symbol is the chain of union. If I meet a mason, I offer him my hand and my friendship. That is a deeper feeling, we all share the same initiations, the same experiences.... Indeed. There is not more I can add to that without sounding pompous.
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Post by hopefulmason on May 1, 2007 16:19:26 GMT
I think of freemasonry as much more than a club. Its more like a way of life....with others that want to live life just as you are doing. Individuals embracing each other without question, helping each other without question and teaching each other. When I am at masonic meetings I just get the "i feel better feeling". Not better than anyone else, just better about myself. just my thoughts.
Also as far as presidents being masons....I dont really see the big deal. Yeah there are a couple of hundred "high powered" masons that can be named. What about the hundreds of thousands that are just your regular working people. As far as all of the conspiracies.......There are always people who are going to question things they dont fully understand. Thus making assumptions and speculations. Lets look at a board room meeting in a powerful comapny. Are they going to let eveyone in to listen to their company secrets? Why are they not reffered to as a secret society? Same situation in my opinion. I think it is quite humorous how people can imagine all of these negative things about one of the top charitable organizations on the planet!
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