Post by hollandr on Jun 1, 2008 22:33:09 GMT
I thought that I would start a separate thread to avoid personalising the issue to Angelo
As a human - born into the physical world - I know that I breathe. And I can tell when the air is stale or fresh.
When I was born again in Spirit, I knew that I breathed Spirit and could tell when it was strong or weak without needing an elder to tell me. And as I recounted in the previous thread, I went in search of people and organisations that were strong in the Spirit.
There is a test question I often used for someone to help them understand if they were born again in Spirit.
Do you BELIEVE in God or do you KNOW that God exists?
As someone approachs the point of rebirth they wobble back and forth between believing and knowing.
I recall a workmate who was approaching the rebirth (but not attending a church). One day I saw him in the street and it was obvious to me that he had been reborn in Spirit.
So I asked him my test question. And he replied: That he did not know that God existed but that he had stopped expecting something for nothing.
In my view he now knew that Life had a meaning and therefore there was no such thing as luck. It seems to me that Life having a meaning is pretty much the same as a Divine Plan and therefore the existence of Divinity
So, it seems to me that if one goes through the church born again process but is still a believer then the process has not worked.
Now in mystical circles the rebirth in Spirit is known as "the birth of the Christ in the cave of the heart". And that reminds me of the Masonic question and answer:
Where were you first made a Freemason? In my heart.
How does the lodge know whether that preparation in the heart is sufficient? Generally it does not, but goes ahead with the initiation anyway. So is the new brother a true brother? In an organisational sense he or she is. But in an inner sense it may take years before the brother is born conscious into Spirit
I suggest both churches and lodges have the same issue: Is the candidate properly prepared in their heart?
At present rebirth in Spirit more often occurs in sleep but in times to come it will be a communal event as is presaged in both churches and lodges
As a human - born into the physical world - I know that I breathe. And I can tell when the air is stale or fresh.
When I was born again in Spirit, I knew that I breathed Spirit and could tell when it was strong or weak without needing an elder to tell me. And as I recounted in the previous thread, I went in search of people and organisations that were strong in the Spirit.
There is a test question I often used for someone to help them understand if they were born again in Spirit.
Do you BELIEVE in God or do you KNOW that God exists?
As someone approachs the point of rebirth they wobble back and forth between believing and knowing.
I recall a workmate who was approaching the rebirth (but not attending a church). One day I saw him in the street and it was obvious to me that he had been reborn in Spirit.
So I asked him my test question. And he replied: That he did not know that God existed but that he had stopped expecting something for nothing.
In my view he now knew that Life had a meaning and therefore there was no such thing as luck. It seems to me that Life having a meaning is pretty much the same as a Divine Plan and therefore the existence of Divinity
So, it seems to me that if one goes through the church born again process but is still a believer then the process has not worked.
Now in mystical circles the rebirth in Spirit is known as "the birth of the Christ in the cave of the heart". And that reminds me of the Masonic question and answer:
Where were you first made a Freemason? In my heart.
How does the lodge know whether that preparation in the heart is sufficient? Generally it does not, but goes ahead with the initiation anyway. So is the new brother a true brother? In an organisational sense he or she is. But in an inner sense it may take years before the brother is born conscious into Spirit
I suggest both churches and lodges have the same issue: Is the candidate properly prepared in their heart?
At present rebirth in Spirit more often occurs in sleep but in times to come it will be a communal event as is presaged in both churches and lodges