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Post by taylorsman on Nov 6, 2005 8:59:10 GMT
Following on from the comments of Kizzy regarding the type of wine served at Festive Boards I would like to make the following suggestion.
We should stop including wine in the cost of the meal served at the Festive Board. As many UGLE Brethren will know, especially those in London and Home Counties Lodges, the annual costs are rising well above the rate of inflation and in many cases the dining costs are a good part of this increase. If wine is removed from the Dining Costs then the following benefits would accrue:-
1 Either the cost of the meal could be reduced or if kept at the same level a better meal could be supplied for the money paid.
2 Diners could chose what they wish to drink with their meal. Not everyone likes wine, some prefer another drink, perhaps non -alcoholic if they are driving or on medication, some like myself prefer a sweeter wine than is usually served at Festive Boards.
3 Stewards would no longer have the chore of having to serve wine and could then sit with any guests they have and enjoy their meal in peace, after all they have paid for it, sometimes quite a lot. This as you know is a big bug-bear with me and I feel that if we have the waiting staff serving the food then we should have them serve the wine as well. Recently, I attended a Lodge where that is how they run their Festive Board, the wine was served by the waiters and everyone could sit and enjoy their meal and the company.
I feel we need to move with the times on this and as many Lodges, faced with rising costs, are critically examining the format of their Festive Board the question of whether to stop serving wine as an inclusive part of the meal and leaving it to the individual to pay for the drink of his choice, if any, should be considered for the reasons given above.
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Post by JulesTheBit on Nov 6, 2005 11:56:02 GMT
Steve
Agreed for several reasons.
I was at a meeting on Thursday where there was a champagne reception afterwards. The champagne was free, those who wanted soft drinks had to pay for them. Not fair. And a bad idea when some people will be driving home.
One of my Lodge Lodges (Adams, 3122, which you will be pleased to hear works Taylors) has dined at Beotys since I became secretary. Wines and soft drinks are served by the staff and I too prefer that arrangement.
JS
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Post by Siontific on Nov 6, 2005 13:06:02 GMT
We have a bar where brethren buy their own drinks and wine. You can share with friends or just drink your own and your own choice.
The meal is slightly less expensive than other Lodges I have visited. The serving staff just serve the meal.
It works well and provides choice when it comes to drinks.
Admittedly, the Stewards have little to do except organise the sale of raffle tickets but then they get to enjoy the Festive Board like everyone else.
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 6, 2005 14:57:26 GMT
Steve
Surely this is up to each indvidual Lodge, you and I belong to many different units, and with mine we have a wide range of dining/wining/drinking facillities.
My Mother Lodge includes wine as well as an open bar, the open bar works like this if there are 25 members and an assortment of Guests I might have 3 guests I would pay 4 shares of the bar bill. I know this is expensive but my Mother Lodge only meets 4 times a year, and the members voted (by a very large majority) to keep this arrangement going, we look at it every 2 years.
The other end of the scale is my HOM Heptad meets 4 times a year, and 2 members provide the food and drinks by rota and the festive board costs nothing! Membership is £15.00 per year which is actually voluntary but of course everyone pays.
In between these 2 extremes I meet with wine included, Champagne/Orange juice reception and wine included, wine not included and so on.
The only problem I can see is if your Lodge has meetings including wine and a lot of members do not agree with it. Then they should organize a vote and do some petitioning amongst the members to change it.
I personally prefer it when wine is included, because I actually love being a steward (As DC in My Lodge I often get up and help ours). I think it is a great way for newer members to meet everyone in the Lodge and in every Order I am in I have always gone out of my way to do this for at least a year just to get to know people that you wouldnt neccessarily get to know at the bar. I know that not everyone agrees with me, and I have to say I know one guy that never went back to his Lodge because (I didnt join to become a waiter!) he didnt like it and no one explained anything to him.
I never insist on a Steward serving wine, if they do not want to do it, there is always someone more than happy to. I just dont think it is a big deal.
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Post by taylorsman on Nov 6, 2005 16:20:00 GMT
Chris I'm glad you like being a Steward or equivalent. I DON'T! I will do it if that is my duty for the year but although I will be friendly and smiling to those being served I do not like having to do this.
When a meal was about £5 that was one thing but recently the cost of dining has shot up in this geographical area and I do not like paying £15 to £25 for a meal for it to be ruined and to desert my guests to serve wine which is often of inferior quality anyway. One thing I like about most of the Higher Degrees is that you buy your own drink or if the meal is inclusive of wine a bottle of each is left on each sprig and Brethren help themselves or indeed the waitresses serve it as they do the food.
I honestly consider it servile to expect a man who is paying for his meal to serve at table and if this must be the case then give the Stewards a free meal as they deserve it as much if not more than the Tyler or Secretary who are often accorded that benefit. I can well sympathise with the man who said "I did not join to become a waiter" we should have our sights set on far higher things.
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bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
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Post by bod on Nov 6, 2005 17:28:51 GMT
My Mark lodge works on the buy your own basis, and I think it works well. I think most lodges go for the house wine or cheapest option which quite often leaves a lot to be desired.
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giovanni
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odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
Posts: 2,627
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Post by giovanni on Nov 6, 2005 17:33:29 GMT
But why not beer? You have excellent ones.
Leave wine to us. Here, in Italy I mean, the house's wine is generally more than acceptable.
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Post by Jumile on Nov 6, 2005 17:52:19 GMT
I'm not sure about using Kizzy's comments to bolster your statements here, TM. But that aside, I agree with you about the wine issue.
Not everyone drinks (our Secretary is tee-total) and others drink for two (our [paid] Tyler is a fish), so it's an unfair arrangement. Mind you - none of our non-drinking brethren utter a word of complaint.
I wish the same were true of their counterparts when the wine runs out...
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Post by rbartlett on Nov 6, 2005 19:57:49 GMT
I'm currently a steward in our lodge and was horrified to learn that other Lodges have Stewards fetch and carry for the Brethren assembled at the FB.
It's completely unnecessary that someone would be expected to leave their meal,walk from the other side of the room to tip a bottle within reach of the very person who wants a top up.
I'm so glad and proud that our Lodge does not operate this as a policy and it should be the first things a newly installed Master eradicates
S&F
Richard
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Post by taylorsman on Nov 6, 2005 20:13:40 GMT
It varies Bro Richard. Some Lodges let the Stewards serve a first glass for wine for the Wine Takings, then enjoy their first course, then serve another top up with the Main Course, then a final glass to cover the Toasts after they have had their Dessert. Personally I prefer that if a Lodge does have wine inclusive that it leaves a bottles of each on every sprig and the Stewards merely supply another bottle as required, Brethren serving themselves.
I still feel that wine should either be dropped and left to the individual to purchase, (or an alternative drink of his choice) and a better meal be served instead or the waiting staff should serve it, after all that is what they are paid to do.
As for Raffles. I will always buy the tickets, I'm not a miser, but I don't really like them. In many Lodges they go on and on when people are getting tired and want to go home. Three to five prizes are sufficient IMO. When it drags on to Ten prizes and yet another box of Cadbury's Roses or of cheap House Wine are the prizes left then it is too much. Usually there is the Toast to the Visitors and a reply to come afterwards, before the Tyler's Toast
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Post by waynecowley on Nov 7, 2005 8:44:56 GMT
In just about all the lodges etc that I am a member of/attend as a visitor, wine is only provided as part of the cost of the meal at Installations or similar special occasions (there are only one or two exceptions to this who pride themselves as being "Dining Lodges" but they are very much in the minority)
Even where the wine is provided it tends to be bottles on the table for the brethren to look after themselves. The Stewards duties seem mainly to be confined to selliong raffle tickets and, sometimes, collecting the dining fees
Wayne
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sarge
Member
peace and harmony
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Post by sarge on Nov 7, 2005 10:08:11 GMT
At our Lodge beer and soft drink only are supplied except for the scotch for the toasts.these and the supper are all served by............. WAIT FOR IT....................PAST MASTERS!!!. The thinking behind this is that newly raised Masons are better off in the Temple learning the many aspects of Freemasonry than leaving half way through proceedings to prepare supper far better leave it to past masters who do not ( or should not) need any further tuition Sarge P.S. Steve you should immigrate to Australia , we do not have any trouble with undrinkable wine it is all like nectar
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