|
Post by cosmicthought on Oct 16, 2008 5:09:40 GMT
If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around, does it make a sound?
|
|
imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
|
Post by imakegarb on Oct 16, 2008 5:14:42 GMT
Yes.
|
|
Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
|
Post by Tamrin on Oct 16, 2008 7:10:36 GMT
No... Maybe... What was the question?
Seriously, it would create waves of energy which a subject present may subject-ively experience as "sound," depending on their sensory "wiring."
|
|
|
Post by maat on Oct 16, 2008 22:52:32 GMT
No... Maybe... What was the question? Seriously, it would create waves of energy which a subject present may subject-ively experience as "sound," depending on their sensory "wiring." Which is why some people hear things that others don't? If a person's vision expands into the infrared and ultraviolet range they might see things that others don't? Mysticism and Science surf the waves Maat
|
|
|
Post by maat on Oct 16, 2008 23:03:34 GMT
Or are they 'Range' Riders ;D Maat Met the original Lone Ranger once ... got the names of his horse and indian friend mixed up (and I reckon he used to starch his neck scarf, it flowed over his shoulder like he was moving at great speed)
|
|
|
Post by windtimber on Nov 22, 2008 19:37:24 GMT
If I say something in the forest and my wife is not there to hear it, does she still think whatever I said is wrong?
|
|
|
Post by maximus on Nov 22, 2008 20:43:29 GMT
If I say something in the forest and my wife is not there to hear it, does she still think whatever I said is wrong? Yes. The man is always wrong. Hey, your avatar disappeared.
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Nov 23, 2008 0:16:55 GMT
Now I have always taken the practical view.
By that I mean , if a tree falls will it only make a sound if no human is there to hear it, record the event. Make witness to the to what has happened.
In other words does it need man to be what it is, a tree falling in the forest. Indeed would the tree have grown in the first place, if no one observed the passing of that time.
This expands into would there be time if there is no one to observe time.
What purpose is time if there is no being to which it relates. Man gets on with things day after day, like the other creatures. Would there be anything if there were no creature to observe it, to take part in it, to be a part of it ?
|
|
|
Post by maximus on Nov 23, 2008 5:51:02 GMT
Does time create the observer? Or does the observer create time? The observer creates time. Time is relative, and is a result of our planetary rotation coupled with our orbit around our local star. In space, traveling at light-speed, time would cease to be such a factor. (in space, no one can hear you scream ;D)
|
|
|
Post by lauderdale on Nov 23, 2008 8:50:42 GMT
Who cares?
If the tree falls on me, my house, car etc, or on someone I know then I am concerned. If it falls with nobody around then I suppose the birds and animals living in the tree would be affected, but that would be it. The fallen tree would rot away eventually, no doubt providing a habitat for fungi etc and eventually its nutrients would return to the earth as is the way of Nature.
This must happen hundreds of thousands of times every day in the vast forests and jungles of the earth. It is part of the natural order of things.
So again I say, who cares?
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Nov 23, 2008 12:51:46 GMT
The trees might care ;d
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Nov 23, 2008 14:29:19 GMT
who cares? Well if I am correct this started life as an exercise in expansion of awareness in Universities. The object of the question is to expand the mind, so those who are interested in learning a bit more, I suppose is the answer. Like many good questions only when you have attempted an answer do you find the benefit. You then find other people have a completely opposite answer, we then learn we do not know everything. Well of course that does not apply in my case. Wiki says: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/If_a_tree_falls_in_a_forestThe origin of the question is unknown, but the current phrasing appears to have originated in the twentieth century. A 1910 physics book asks: "When a tree falls in a lonely forest, and no animal is near by to hear it, does it make a sound? The "common sense" answer is that yes, it does indeed make a sound. Since a sound is by definition a frequency, and such a frequency is emitted when one object strikes another, the frequency created when the hypothetical tree hits the hypothetical ground qualifies as a sound. However, some believe that sensory details cannot exist unless perceived. The philosiphical answer: What it means is, just be cause you can't see it, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. For example: There could be a girl that seemed very happy when around people, but when alone, she could cry and be the saddest person in the world. Just because no one sees her being sad or crying and every one sees her happy, doesn't mean she isn't.
|
|
|
Post by lauderdale on Nov 23, 2008 16:52:44 GMT
Thanks Bro Bill. I will save my time and brain power for important matters relevant to me such as keeping hold of my employment in the current Economic Slump. The trees can fend for themselves and whether they make a sound or not in falling is a matter of total indifference to me.
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Nov 23, 2008 17:13:22 GMT
I am with you Pro , I care and no one will take that right away from me. The other person may not care if I live or die, but I care that they live and live well. If I did not care I would not try to explain.
Lets try this one, if you were to go deaf, you would do almost anything to hear that tree fall. You would want to know 'why can I not hear, what have I done to deserve this'. You are now directly involved, you now care.
|
|
|
Post by lauderdale on Nov 23, 2008 17:53:46 GMT
Ok, as I type this I am sure that some people are dying of Cholera in Rhodesia since the Black Hitler, Mugabe, will not permit foreign medical assistance into the country. I do not know any of these people, I never will but I do feel sorry for them. Likewise, as I type this I am sure that someone is being killed in an RTA on a British road, someone I do not know and never will, but I feel sorry for them and their family and friends. That however is it.
I was in Brighton when the hurricane hit the South of England in the late 1980s. A woman two roads away from mine was killed when the chimney breast collapsed and fell through the roof. I felt sorry for her and her family. Thousands of trees were blown down that night (including one in my back garden). I didn't give a **** , as far as I was concerned lots of free firewood or timber.
It's like that other piece of nonsense about a butterfly flapping its wings in a forest thousands of miles away. Big Deal! It will probably be seen by a lizard or a bird and eaten, so it goes. Really I have much more relevant and interesting matters to think about.
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Nov 23, 2008 18:56:28 GMT
That would depend Pro on how close you were.
The question is different to each person who reads it. How you read it tells what type of person you are. [In my opinion] If you are open to new ideas or you have a fixed view.
You see from the Wiki quote it says, "However, some believe that sensory details cannot exist unless perceived." So I am not the first to suggest this.
Like Steves Butterfly, it is all in the mind of the reader, he thinks its rubbish, some would say it is absolute. I dont mind, I am happy for Steve to believe what he believes and you to believe what you believe. Like God it is unfathomable, we can only prove the tree makes no noise by removing all life from the universe and then listening, but we cant because we have removed all life.
What we have done however is dare to dream the impossible. Without that dream there would be no progress.
Steve, you, me we are sitting at a computer typing and conversing with people from all over the world, that started with a dream, to contemplate the impossible.
|
|