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Post by atarnaris on Dec 3, 2005 14:08:39 GMT
Let's assume that tomorrow a global disaster happened (assume is the word; Ruff keep away). All electricity has gone for the forseeable future, we have massive riots in the streets etc. You get the picture.
One would surely look after his family first. But what about the Mysteries and the Royal Art. How do we preserve this? How do we make sure that the Light continues to shine through? Remember all electricity is gone, so computers etc is out of the question. I know it is an apocalyptic scenario, but I am still interested in your thoughts...
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jmd
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fourhares.com
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Post by jmd on Dec 3, 2005 14:18:23 GMT
...step one: replace the electric lights on the pillars in the Temples in our constitution to CANDLES!
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Post by atarnaris on Dec 3, 2005 14:24:09 GMT
Bro JMD,
I understand your point. If everyone does a little thing, then the impact will be huge. Then there are economic think-tanks that think as majoever swift is inevitable. So let's discuss not how do we prevent the swift, but how do we preserve the "Light" for future generatiosn?
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phil
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Just me all at sea
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Post by phil on Dec 3, 2005 14:43:33 GMT
I’m sorry brethren, but I think the question is not relevant. If, as you say, there is absolute chaos and no electronic power, with riots etc. then the first requisite is survival not philosophy!
First, you must ensure the survival of yourself and that of your family.
Only after that, can you consider being charitable to others and then spreading the word of good deeds, righteousness, holiness etc. Before then, I don’t think that anybody would give a toss about what Nietze said in 1881.
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Post by atarnaris on Dec 3, 2005 14:45:03 GMT
What about your duty to serve humanity?
It is at these times when the fruits of Freemasonry have to show, otherwise all the time and energy has been to waste. It is through this servitude that the word of God will be spread further. And I agree that family comes first. But what next?
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giovanni
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odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
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Post by giovanni on Dec 3, 2005 15:55:09 GMT
Welcome on board, Andy!
Light will be preserved as usual: in the hearts and in the minds of the true initiates.
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Post by rbartlett on Dec 3, 2005 16:03:13 GMT
What about your duty to serve humanity? It is at these times when the fruits of Freemasonry have to show, otherwise all the time and energy has been to waste. It is through this servitude that the word of God will be spread further. And I agree that family comes first. But what next? There is no next. It would be the end of civilization and hence Freemasonry. Also what on earth has God got to do with this ?? S&F Richard
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phil
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Just me all at sea
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Post by phil on Dec 3, 2005 16:26:01 GMT
100% right Richard!
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Post by a on Dec 3, 2005 17:44:10 GMT
This thread is showing up some interetsing differences as what Freemasonry is thought to be all about. Its a big, diverse, Masonic world out there.
Anyhow the light would remain within the hearts of those who were sufficiently far along their personal journies, and such people would no doubt do what little they could when they could, quietly, until such times (perhaps many generations away) when they could do more. It helps is you recognise reincarnation to see this.
Which is why, as history has proven, you simply can not execute and torture and suppress the light of the illuminated ones. It will keep bouncing back. It may wait a few hundred years before blossoming again, but in the meantime it is there helping to smooth the sharper edges.
The trouble is that just now if such a major disaster were to occur, I think that Mother Nature would choose to reset this planet which would make it all academic anyway. Mind you, you can argue that this is already happening, there is plenty of evidence for it, both from scientists and from the average man in the street. Ask Cameron about radiation leves in NZ as one of many many examples.
All that any Freemason who has found the light can do is follow his heart for that will guide them. For those who think that this is all mumbo jumbo could I suggest a crash course in Freemasonry. For those who have an inckling but don't yet feel, hassle your powers that be so that more guidance is given, after all you are here for a reason, and our world really really needs you to shine about now.
Finally Andrew, fear not for the mysteries they are safely guarded. Of that I am sure.
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Dec 3, 2005 17:49:38 GMT
, there is plenty of evidence for it, both from scientists and from the average man in the street. Ask Cameron about radiation leves in NZ as one of many many examples. i have a vision.....cameron walking down his local high street with his own personal geiger counter tick tick tick tick
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Post by lateknightchemist on Dec 3, 2005 18:29:38 GMT
There is bound to be disorder. In these situations some of us would all hunker down with families and, presumably, neighbours. We would make do. I suspect that there would also be people with a "messianic" vision who would seek to help wider communities to come together and maybe form some defence against the inevitable criminal fraternity . There will also be false prophets, fundamentalists, preachers of doom who will claim to have foreseen the calamity. I believe some would turn to "god" (small "g"). There would be some who would seek solace from spirituality - albeit not during the rescue phase of the new order but certainly in the rehabilitation and recovery phases.
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Post by corab on Dec 3, 2005 21:41:30 GMT
The question is: does it need preserving?
I like to think there is a spark of Divinity in all of us - surely that spark will re-ignite the Mysteries when the time is right.
Sure - we may have lost the *knowledge* of how the rites were carried out, and perhaps to some extent knowledge of the mysteries itself, but what, in essence are the Mysteries as we know them, today ..?
A old Teacher of mine used to say that the answer to all our questions is within, and I think he was right.
In the aftermath of your doomsday scenario, when things would've begun to settle down a bit and society had regained some rudimentary form of organisation once again, those bright Lights in humanity would start asking those questions again, and re-discover the Answers once more.
The essence of our Mysteries is, was and always will be within.
Cora
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Post by atarnaris on Dec 3, 2005 21:58:45 GMT
Anyhow the light would remain within the hearts of those who were sufficiently far along their personal journies, and such people would no doubt do what little they could when they could, quietly, until such times (perhaps many generations away) when they could do more. It helps is you recognise reincarnation to see this. Stewart, Your comment reminds me of the following: WM: Brethren, the substituted Secrets of a Master Mason, thus regularly communicated to me, I, as Master of this Lodge, and thereby the humble representative of King Solomon, sanction and confirm with my approbation, and declare that they shall designate you, and all Master Masons throughout the Universe, until time or circumstances shall restore the genuine.
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Dec 3, 2005 22:26:56 GMT
I don't think civilisation would end just because there were riots and no electricity. Let's remember that for the first 35,000 years of human civilisation it was like that all the time as a matter of course.
With no electric light after sunset for 365 days of the year, in Tony Robinson's memorable phrase, how would you spend your evenings? So expect the population to surge suddenly. Nor should we expect the sudden lack of clinical care necessarily to result in a dizzying plummet of medical awareness. Thanks to a thing called history, people remember things they learnt five minutes ago before the lights went out. So knowledge of antiseptics and drugs won't disappear overnight. Without computers, people would just have to go back to what they used before, namely pen and paper.
And has no-one heard of oral tradition? Mouth to ear, Brethren. Go to it.
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giovanni
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odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
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Post by giovanni on Dec 3, 2005 22:36:20 GMT
Quite right, fraticello!
Oral tradition, from mouth to ear, is the very masonic manner to teach the Royal Art (and also other things)
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Post by atarnaris on Dec 3, 2005 23:07:00 GMT
I don't think civilisation would end just because there were riots and no electricity. Let's remember that for the first 35,000 years of human civilisation it was like that all the time as a matter of course. With no electric light after sunset for 365 days of the year, in Tony Robinson's memorable phrase, how would you spend your evenings? So expect the population to surge suddenly. Nor should we expect the sudden lack of clinical care necessarily to result in a dizzying plummet of medical awareness. Thanks to a thing called history, people remember things they learnt five minutes ago before the lights went out. So knowledge of antiseptics and drugs won't disappear overnight. Without computers, people would just have to go back to what they used before, namely pen and paper. And has no-one heard of oral tradition? Mouth to ear, Brethren. Go to it. Bro Ruff, For once I agree with you. This is where I was heading with it...
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Post by kizzy on Dec 4, 2005 8:57:22 GMT
Firstly, I just don't see such a scenario occuring. If some force (if such can exist outside of the Deity and the Supernatural) was to block the flow of electrons, which is what Electricity actually is, then yes our modern Society would be in very great difficulties, our instant world wide communications would be anhiliated and air travel would cease, though as Ruff says we would have to revert to the more primitive technology of pre-electric ages, candles, steam power, water power, wind power, oil lamps, even town gas would still be possible to produce though without the electronic monitoring and control devices we take for granted, mechancial gauges and controls as used in the early pre-electric Industrial Revolution would make a massive come back, though with the advantage of the advances and discoveries we have made in material science, metalurgy etc, as long as Electricity was NOT required to produce such items. Mankind's ingenuity when placed in difficulties is almost boundless. There are many activities we could still follow. Take yourself back to England, Europe or the USA in about the time of the American Civil War to envisage what life would be like. Of course as long as we could still manufacture them without electrical power we would still have modern medicine etc. To put it bluntly, we could still get by but without some of the conveniences we take for granted. Some people would actually gain, I could see coal mining and the old fashioned manufacturing industries coming back , steam locomotives and ships being built again, old trades such as ostler, farrier, stablehand returning as horses and carriages are used for transport. My occupation would simply cease to exist as would aviation and motor transport as both need electricity. The World would become big again without instant communciation. However if the Victorians were as great without electricty (at least for the first few decades or so of that era) then I'm sure we could survive. It would NOT be the "Nuclear Winter" Scenario prophesied by the "Doomwatch" brigade. Just think, no UN, no WTO, no World Bank, no American Domination of the World. Nation States once more left to run their own affairs. Why , this is beginning to have a good side to it after all!
As to the bleak side of this hypothesis, the probable breakdown of the normal conventions of behaviour in such a great emergency, at least in the short term. As has been shown in localised disasters the worst can come out in humanity as well as the best in such circumstances and looting, riots, and other civil disorder can occur. History shows that when people have no food, clean water, shelter etc they will soon throw off the thin veneer of civilisation and resort to brute force to feed themselves and their families. Monarchies and Governments have been toppled by such disruptions, for example the Tsar in Russia and the Kerensky Menshevik Government which replaced him for a few months until overthrown by Lenin and the Bolsheviks.
As to Bro Andrew's question , the books and records containing such lore would still exist unless burnt by rioters etc, but frankly if a man and his wife and children are starving, the water is polluted, there are only basic and scarce medical facilities, then such philosophical matters would take a very low priority indeed for the majority of people, as Phil has already said.
When things eventually settled down again and we adapted to a non Electric/Electronic Society probably by sheer Military force being used to restore Order and Discipline in Society then perhaps some people might start to examine these old books again and explore the ideas contained therein?
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Post by a on Dec 4, 2005 9:30:47 GMT
Stewart, Your comment reminds me of the following: WM: Brethren, the substituted Secrets of a Master Mason, thus regularly communicated to me, I, as Master of this Lodge, and thereby the humble representative of King Solomon, sanction and confirm with my approbation, and declare that they shall designate you, and all Master Masons throughout the Universe, until time or circumstances shall restore the genuine. Andrew that day is nearly with us, or at least available to us, should individual freemasons and fraternities be ready for it. Conceptually, it is a bit like what you read in the esoteric literature about humans having several possible exit times from incarnation during a lifetime. This is just one of those times that Freemasons can reach out and grab the genuine if they so desire.
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Post by taylorsman on Dec 4, 2005 21:56:01 GMT
Think of what we could still do.
Ok, we lose anything which uses electricity, but we still have steam power which was used for years. We would not have the modern communications or navigation nor radar of course but ships would stil be able to cross the oceans even if air travel was lost. We still have light albeit by burning oil or candles, or by using chemicals which generate light. Would a diesel engine still function as it does not require a spark although it would have to be cranked by hand and a flywheel or by using a steam engine, water power, wind power to turn it over.
Although lots of things would no longer be available , Computers, TV , Radio, Telephone, Telegraph, we would still be better of than when Queen Victoria came to the throne with our greatly advanced Medical and Surgical knowledge still intact, although we would be sterilising the instruments in a gas heated autoclave not an electric powered one. I think we could get by.
Would any Forum Member with a scientific and practical outlook and knowledge care to comment on my contention that , as long as riots and other civil unrest were dealt with firmly and Order maintained then this would not be such a Global Disaster as has been postulated. After all we seemed to exist well enough in the reigns of George IV, William IV and the early years of Victoria with no electricty.
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Post by maat on Dec 4, 2005 22:11:53 GMT
An interesting question ... I remember ages ago when they were making all those "when the bomb drops" and "the morning after" movies - what I would do. I went through the wondering about storing up seed, tinned foods etc - but when I thought about what it would take to keep and protect them - not to mention getting to the point that, if you really wanted to keep them for your family, you would quite literally have to chose who to let starve to death. In the end I decided to starve along with everyone else.... the gradual diminuation of energy would most likely make that a less painful solution in the long run.
It's not such a 'far out' question to ask either. I was reading not too long ago - that before the Adam civilisation there was 30(!) previous to that - and given the supposed age of the planet, why not.
In a really big catastrophe - apparently the current generation 'copes' but with severely diminished resources the following generations actually deteriorate quite markedly into another dark age before 'the sun rises again'. Mouth to ear information proving far less practical than first hand KNOWLEDGE.
Masonry teaches us about the cyclic nature of things.
In this instance I think it would do us well to consider that the proposed scenario above ALREADY EXISTS in a large part of the world. What are we doing about it.... the answer could well affect what happens to us 'when the wheel turns'.
Maat
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