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Post by lauderdale on Dec 21, 2008 11:43:31 GMT
I have brought this across from my own Forum as I would be interested in the opinions of the larger membership here.
================================================ Twenty years ago as a new Mason I used to enjoy the Festive Boards ( called the South or Refectory in other Constitutions) but have to say that I soon became fed up with the same old Wine Takings, Toasts, Speeches, Fire etc, etc with overpriced and poor quality food, to say nothing of the "unpaid wine-waiter" issue that was raised by "Malky".
I prefer the simpler "Bring and Share Buffets" we have in LDH with few if any Toasts etc but to be honest I would rather just have a quick drink be that of wine or a cup of coffee with the Brethren after the work in the Temple and then have a nice relaxed and informal meal with some of the Brethren in a local restaurant or pub before going home.
In former times it probably made sense to have a sit down meal after a Meeting but these days with greater demands on people's time dispensing with the FB after the Meeting, except perhaps on special occasions such as Installations, Special Anniversaries, Banner Dedications etc would enable Meetings to start later yet still finish at a decent time, a boon to those working members and a saving in money in these economically difficult times with high Dining Cost in some areas such as London and the Home Counties.
I've stated my opinion on this, what do others feel? Is the FB a necessary part of a Lodge Meeting or a worn out , tedious and expensive irrelevance?
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Post by vintagemalt on Dec 21, 2008 15:11:14 GMT
Greetings Lauderdale, I have seen your comments on Festive Boards on other sites, I have never replied to them before as i did not really have a strong opinion. In the last year I have attended 9 meetings at my own Lodge and a further 9 visiting other Lodges. All of these have had the fairly normal ( I believe) UGLE style festive boards. Although most have been OK it is very easy to see where you are coming from. The food is not great but it is OK generally. In my limited experience there is often far too much 'ordinary' quality food. I could not ever eat it all at the time of night it is served. I agree that there are an awful lot of toasts and speeches which get a little tedious and repetitive at times. I have not experienced the 'wine waiter' syndrome as in all my visits and in our own lodge everyone does their own wine thingy. The stewards are only really used to sell the raffle tickets and they also do the draw - which seems to be OK. To your main point.... Some of my visits have been 'special' Festive Boards - Burns Nights, Chinese New Year, St Georges Day, Installations and New Initiates. All these are surely best left as a traditional meal and the trimmings but it would be good to Mix 'n match with some simple buffet style Festive boards. Maybe in a season about 50/50 meals & buffets. and skip the toasts etc on special nights - particularly New Initiates nights where the emphasis should surely be on the candidate. But yes generally I think I agree with your thinking I would not be surprised if you have - in the past - attended at least some of the Lodges I have been to as you are in a similar neck of the woods. Vintagemalt
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Post by leonardo on Dec 21, 2008 22:06:52 GMT
I have never experienced food at a UGLE festive board but I did experience food at a UGLE Ladies Night last March in Bournemouth and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Not sure if it's the same thing but it was quite a good experience. As Bro Steve points out our LDH festival boards are less elaborate and I have to say although enjoyable I often can't wait to get away - we have a really long drive home, 4 hours, in fact. So, if members at my lodge decided to scrap the whole FB afterwards I personally wouldn't object. Crikey! I hope no one from my lodge is reading this
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Post by billmcelligott on Dec 21, 2008 22:21:21 GMT
The UGLE Festive Board is a wonderful event, where else could you listen to me for approximately 15 minutes make up something on the spot, get heckled so much I forget what it was a started with and then create a new speech to finish.
I suggest vintagemalt you come along to listen to me one evening. it is an experience never to be missed.
I will be at Lodge Albert in Scotland at the end of January 2009, the Scottish Festive board of Haggis [Burns Night] is just as well received. Come up for a visit.
But it is the company that makes the difference.
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Post by maat on Dec 21, 2008 22:26:05 GMT
IMO - festive boards are not about the food, good or bad.
Festive boards on the exoteric level are providing the opportunity for the Brn to mix and communicate and further deepen the bonds of friendship and committment.
Festive boards on the esoteric level provide an opportunity for 'grounding' after 'a change in consciousness (brainwaves)'. After a successful working, it is most unwise to drive without first grounding oneself.
Maat
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Post by leonardo on Dec 21, 2008 22:34:03 GMT
IMO - festive boards are not about the food, good or bad. Festive boards on the exoteric level are providing the opportunity for the Brn to mix and communicate and further deepen the bonds of friendship and committment. Festive boards on the esoteric level provide an opportunity for 'grounding' after 'a change in consciousness (brainwaves)'. After a successful working, it is most unwise to drive without first grounding oneself. Maat Thanks maat. Perhaps I am being a bit disingenuous as I do enjoy the company and the craic, yes, we have craic at our Festive boards, but the thoughts of the long trip home can play on the mind and the craic just isn't the same
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Post by corab on Dec 21, 2008 22:43:22 GMT
I think it's necessary. I'm not particularly fussed about a 3-course meal or the likes, but a wind-down afterwards is a necessity, both in terms of social bonding and in grounding ourselves after the energetically demanding work in the Temple.
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Post by lauderdale on Dec 21, 2008 22:50:36 GMT
I must say Bro Maat that I have always considered Festive Boards as totally Mundane. I have to agree with Bro Leo that the one I attended in Ireland was first class even if the toasts drank were in TEA! (That was a first for me!)
However, I still prefer to just have a quick drink (not tea) with those I have worked with in the Temple (the Esoteric side) then either get my train home or hopefully go to a restaurant for a nice relaxed and informal meal with a few Masonic friends and sometimes non-Masons too. Perhaps Bro Maat that meal fulfils the same function for me as the FB does for you, though I have to say I have never thought if it that way but simply as an enjoyable meal with friends with good food and good wine after an equally enjoyable Meeting in the Temple.
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Dec 26, 2008 12:23:11 GMT
although i mainly enjoy the pomp and ceremony in the temple with ritual that teaches us to be a better person i must say that i also enjoy the FB wjhich also teaches us manners and etiquette and helps greatly in improving our social skills and meeting many different people enjoyed over a meal. I have learnt much from thr fb other than just eating and drinking. Steve...you have experienced both sides of the fence and i am sure you ar ebenefitting health wise from not having so many FBs as you were once use to. I am now SW of my Lodge and have the privilege and pleasure of GRand Lodge toast and Steve... you will be pleased to hear that i stole the fire at the installation meeting particularly as the escort for the evening was a certain brother with the initials PM from 5223 !!! I was actually complimented for getting it spot on from memory. Always goes down well with the PGM in attendance i hope ? Anyway FBs are UGLE Tradition and the e vening would be quite downgraded witrhout them IMPO
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Post by staffs on Dec 26, 2008 12:25:10 GMT
Bill, although we have dined together on several occassions i have yet to hear you rany on at the FB . I will look fporward to it as i know you can garble and be sure that i can heckle!!!
And without the FB our visitors would be deprived of having our very own Visitors song sung to them which is also a TRADITION ! and we do have the voices of Angels...."Hells Angels"
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Post by staffs on Dec 26, 2008 15:44:40 GMT
JW:..........from labour to refreshment and refreshment to labour that profit and PLEASURE may be the result.. !!!
Says quite a lot in such a small piece of ritual ?
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Post by brandt on Dec 26, 2008 21:50:12 GMT
The Festive Board may well be the most important Masonic symbol. When brethren can break bread together and share a drink and some fraternity, well that is what the world can be.
Brandt
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Post by AndyF on Dec 27, 2008 0:24:09 GMT
The festive board is certainly still relevant, but how we should go about it is something I'm not so sure about.
Most UGLQ Lodges tyle at 7:30pm, with a lot of brethren having finished work around 5pm. Theres not quite enough time to have a decent meal before you leave for Lodge, and yet the meeting doesn't normally finish until after 9:30/10:00 at night. We then head out to the festive board at a time when a fair few of us would ordinarily be getting to bed, and commence eating.
The most mundane part of the festive board seems to be one of the biggest stumbling blocks in my jurisdiction: the food itself. No one wants to be eating a massive three course meal at that time of night, yet no one wants their visitors to think they're too tight to give them a decent feed. I get the impression that unfortunately most brethren in Queensland see the Festive Board as their main reason for turning up on the night.
With this in mind I've asked a bunch of brethren whether or not they have dinner before going to Lodge, and if they'd rather a three course meal or light supper at the Festive Board. The responses I have received have left me wondering if discussing Festive Boards should be added to the list right next to religion and politics.
Also if the main point of the Festive Board is to socialise and catch up with people, if we're seated and eating we can really only chat to those sitting either side of us and maybe across from us depending on seating arrangements. Surely standing /mingling with finger food would be the answer? ...except that would mean an end to the three course meal, and a lynching from knife and fork masons for even suggesting it. Also we have to consider our much older brethren who would need to sit regardless.
I feel the toasts to the Candidate, visitors, incoming WM etc to be relevant and worthwhile. Its when people feel the need to take all night with their responses to those toasts that things get a bit tedious.
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Post by Blackadder on Jan 1, 2009 18:03:11 GMT
It would be fantastic to even have a "Festive board". After our meting we have a cup of coffee,and cake or some below par food one of the officers has brought to the meeting. About 30% of the Brothers leave straight after the meeting and the rest of the Brothers stand in little groups.There is nothing said by the WM etc. and after the coffee the rest of the brothers drift off home. We had a few Brothers visit from Australia,Canada, South Africa,UK. they were stunned at the lack of a real Festive Board or Brotherhood after the meeting.
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Post by lauderdale on Jan 1, 2009 18:25:56 GMT
One man's meat, Bro Blackadder. That would suit me just fine, quick coffee, tea or wine with the Master and others, an informal chat then off , in some cases having a nice relaxing meal in a restaurant thereafter with some of the Brethren, before going home.
A formal meal is fine after some big Meeting, but I must say I am not into "Fire" etc, and speeches should be short and kept to a minimum.
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Post by middlepillar on Jan 1, 2009 19:53:43 GMT
I think this is one area where myself and bro Steve will always be in disagreement! Probably in every aspect!!
Firstly, I have always personally loved the opputunity of being a Steward and being able to serve wine when needed to. In fact as soon as I became DC of my Mother Lodge 12 years ago I nearly always got up to assist the Stewards. It is the only time your get to talk to everybody and at most meetings you will always meet someone new. As a new boy being Steward simply helps you engage with all the brethren and like the ceremonies you have gone through you know everyone in the room has been through the same experience.
However the festive board is more important on a level with what Bro Maat has suggested, it is an extremely esoteric and important part of the whole masonic ceremony, it provides grounding for everyone involved in the ceremonies as you prepare to reenter your mundanelives how better to come back down to earth than through a festive breaking of bread? If the festive board is conducted properly it should be a time where brethren can share experiences ask questions and get to understand what has been going onin the Temple as well as just participating in good companionship.
In HOM the festive board is something that you must have and although always simpler than The UGLE version it is extremely important, after the board it is traditional for the presiding master to offer a subject for discussion which will take part for approx 45 mins.
I personally believe it is an important integral part of what Freemasonry is and we would be the worse without it
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Post by lauderdale on Jan 1, 2009 20:51:17 GMT
As Bro MP says we are unlikely to agree on this matter.
I may try an experiment one of these days and after a Meeting have a quick chat with the others then shoot off for a meal or even get the train straight home. I will observe if it makes any difference but frankly I very much doubt it.
Bro MP has the advantage over me that I was never a Member of HOM and do not suppose that I ever will. I must say I much prefer having discussions be they POAs, papers, lectures or whatever to be delivered in the Temple, Labour to be Labour and Refreshment to be Refreshment. A "chat" over a meal , relaxing with friends and ranging over divers topics, Masonic, Political, Religious or even on less serious matters such as Sport etc is to me something else.
Still, as Bro Julian Smith was wont to say, "It's the differences that make it so interesting"
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Post by keith on Jan 1, 2009 22:32:00 GMT
In Kaimanawa our Refectory is pretty informal. Our JW happens to be a chef so he says catering is no sweat. We had a buffet meal in December, soup, cold roast meat, coleslaw , fruit salad and icecream and tea or coffee. THere was wine if you want it, beer and soft drinks. Very little alcohol is drunk these days, our visitors have long drives home. Our toasts are restricted to 'THe Queen and the Craft', 'MW Grand Master' and the Tyler's Toast. Our visitors have all been welcomed personally in the Lodge room so we decided it's a bit of an overkill to toast them again. I am unfamiliar with this "taking wine", what happens and why?
It will be interesting to see what Usages and Customs we come up with when Lodge Taupo-Nui-A-Tia gets underway later on in the year
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Post by billmcelligott on Jan 1, 2009 22:43:37 GMT
In UGLE, no matter if the festive board is a meal or a buffet it is part of the designated Masonic evening. This is an extract from the Mentoring Guide issued by UGLE.
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Post by maximus on Jan 2, 2009 3:18:10 GMT
We have our meal before our degrees. No alcohol, it is forbidden in our jurisdiction. I do not miss it.
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