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Post by fractal3rd on Oct 25, 2011 6:41:07 GMT
Hey all, I read an article about reincarnation and decided to give it a rethink since the RWM at our lodge mentioned it - now I don't think believe in it, but it seems that most freemasons do. The article I read mentions John the Baptist as a reincarnation of Elijah - but reincarnation requires one to die a physical death in order to be reincarnated (ceteris paribus), so when Jesus mentions John as Elijah he cannot be talking about reincarnation Elijah never died - in fact the two pople who were said to come before the Messiah arrives are Elijah and Enoch - both were taken into the heavens did not die a physical death so there really isn't much in the way of reincarnation in the Bible as most supporters insinuate. What do you guys think - in terms of masonry and christianity that is? ??
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Post by maat on Oct 26, 2011 0:01:37 GMT
The Intellect (JW) mentions 'regular meetings'. (The SW (Soul) closes the lodge when commanded by the Master (Spirit).. but only after everyone has had their due. This clearly cannot and does not happen in a single lifetime. Mark - the Overseers/'recording angels'(?) and teaches Perseverance. Ark Mariners - between manifestations 'the essence of us' is safely stored, till we 'land' again. (See what Sufism has to say about this.) Royal Arch - the Twelve might be viewed as the Twelve Labours of Hercules, which we must over time all perform. The Zodiacal qualities will indicate the path of the soul. Tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor, housewife ... A true Initiation, the ritual tells us, requires Perseverance. Rose Croix - lots of directional comings and goings there Additional degrees to that continue to ask that we persevere... .......... Apart from that my 3 year old (at the time) told me who she was in a previous life, told me her name and how she died. All correct. Her current life is proving to take up from where the previous life ceased. ..........
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Post by maat on Oct 26, 2011 0:11:50 GMT
Bible ...
1) Matthew 11,14 and 17,12-13, concerning the identity of John the Baptist;
2) John 9,2, "Who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?";
3) John 3,3, "No one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again";
4) James 3,6, "the wheel of nature";
5) Galatians 6,7, "A man reaps what he sows";
6) Matthew 26,52, "all who draw the sword will die by the sword";
7) Revelation 13,10, "If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed."
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Post by fractal3rd on Oct 26, 2011 5:43:02 GMT
Thanks for your reply - however you have still not proved that these scriptures imply reincarnation –
“Least a man is born again he shall never see the Kingdom of Heaven” actually contradicts reincarnation.
Like I said, John was meant to be Elijah who never died he was taken up.... James in 3v6 was talking about the course of nature ANOTHER translation (KJV) "sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell." James was preaching about hell here and how mans tongue can land him there - not reincarnation.
John 9v2? In fact Jesus later says of this man neither him nor is parents sinned but that this was done for the glory of God...Mmmm thats not very reincarnation like. The last 3 verses also are speaking about this life - the disciple often spoke in parables and they used agriculture and war as imagery alot – these verses must be inspired by the Roman capture of Jerusalem the place of peace.
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Post by maat on Oct 27, 2011 3:41:56 GMT
The scriptures are often take as history, perhaps more could be gained from them if they were viewed as allegories.
Only part of us is reincarnated, our higher selves remain 'higher'. Thus both statements... Reincarnation is, and Reincarnation is not - can both be true. It depends on the level.
Can't prove a thing, nor will I try. These are the sorts of things that one comes to realise over time and with experience.
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Post by maat on Oct 27, 2011 4:30:10 GMT
Maybe the Rosicrucian model will be helpful to some. The point within the circle? Edgar Cayce's source repeatedly stated that "Mind is the Builder".
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Post by fractal3rd on Oct 27, 2011 8:15:50 GMT
"The scriptures are often take as history, perhaps more could be gained from them if they were viewed as allegories." Hey hello guys, thanks for the info I hope I did not come across as narrow minded above, I really do like to understand other ideas and concepts. The Bible makes much sense to me on both a literal (as you put it non-sense) level but I agree much is symbolic - but I think people do go overboard with the allegoric references sometimes things are literal - like the stuff in the book of Daniel - there is archaeological evidence now that Balthazar did exist - for the longest time science and history said the Bible made up this Babylonian King cos he did not appear on their record of Kings (so pople made the story allegoric and symbolic with a deep teaching), a clay tablet recovered in the region, explained how he was named King for a period while his father went off to battle it was at this point that Cyrus the Great attacked Babylon - the Bible mentioned it before science and History could verify it. Not everything is allegoric and not everything is nonsense. I think sometimes we need to accept we only use 10-15% of our brains, God/or the extra terrestrial being spoken of in the VSL uses allot more. In fact the 7 heavens (unknown dimensions) and the 3 known = 10 dimensions: These are only now being proved by physics as part of string theory. The Bible/Torah, Neuwpa Alish, and Hindu verses mention these 10. I think such content was taken as allegoric but now is very literal a 10th dimension… nothing allegoric there... interesting the 10 heavens and 10 fold constitution of man? The trinity and the 3 dimensions known... Me thinks God shows himself differently in each dimension - and as there are 10 aspects of man then there could be 10 aspects of God - viewable on higher planes. I believe when I die I will be sent to the higher plan of existence - for any part of me to remain in the 3rd (except my remains) will be unpleasant even hell - ummm to that end maybe reincarnation does make sense anyhoo, Jesus made it so that there was an easy graduation to the next level… not many prophets and enlightened beings made it so easy that just a belief in Him sorted all your past (even past lives if you believe in reincarnation) issues out. Still I can accept reincarnation if there were a finite amount of souls I refuse to believe that bad people come back as a cockroach’s – cos then I think I killed Hitler and his friends several times over then. Plus I think cockroach’s have awesome lives… lol
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Post by fractal3rd on Oct 28, 2011 6:01:37 GMT
Yep Daniel is my fav too - I know much is hidden away - even Daniel was told to lock/shut up the book as it was not time yet to unlock it. Poor guy saw images of thing that must seem like a sci-fi movie - still what was hidden to him is childs play for us - the book is unlocked... (non-sesne to Dan but very sensical to us) Knowledge has abounded. I don't belief everything but I do do listen to EVERYTHING, therein lies an once of truth - you gotta sift it.
Enjoying the view from you own perspective IS great. Agree lots has been hidden but in plain view. Nice chat
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Post by vajranagini on Nov 4, 2011 23:28:41 GMT
I just thought I'd drop in and give you the benefit of my my non-Christian, left-hand Tantric, former-high priestess-of-a coven's painfully acquired two cents worth I'd say "non-Judaeo-Christian", but having to my credit . working knowledge of Hebrew (acquired for the purpose of giving depth and credibilty to my Hermetically-inclined Qabalistic studies) kinda trips me up at times.As do my recent forays into Arabic (so I can read the original Sufi texts of Ibn el-Arabi) but there is so much mis-and-dis-information surrounding the subject of death/rebirth, recurrence/ reincarnation that it is difficult to know what is valid information on the subject.
I therefore propose to "cut through the bullshit" and tell the membership what is known about it; indeed, I would go so far as to say: the things of which I will now speak constitute the Supreme Mystery of Saturn; i.e. that of the Third Degree and the number 5, this information constituteswhat is known as "inner Plane knowledge" on the West and "what, you didn't know that?">pitying glance< in the East..
The Bhagavad-gita is one of the most revered of Hindu scriptures; it is constituted of eighteen brief chapters out of the great Indian epic, the Mahabharata, which is like unto India like the Iliad and the Odyssey is like unto Western literature, except that in the Mahabharata the Divine element is treated with great respect, and never is it reduced at any time to a role of buffoonery, indeed, it is the raison'etre of the tale! Krishna is a Deity-form that is and should be taken very seriously indeed; thus what Krishna has to say about life and death (The whole B-G is the text of a conversation between Krishna (God) and Arjuna(man) and is quite literally enlightening. may be safely regarded as the last word on the subject. Verse 13, Chapter II speaks unequivocally:
"As the Spirit of our mortal body wanders on in childhood and youth and old age, the Spirit wanders on to a new body: of this the sage has no doubt..."
There is much more, all of it interesting, most of it understandable to anyone with a passing familiarity with Yoga and Eastern newage-speak.
Also, who could forget Gurdjieff's immortal remarks on "Food for the Moon" in Ouspensky's "In Search of the Miraculous'?
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Post by bradwatsonmiami on Nov 13, 2011 3:05:31 GMT
The article I read mentions John the Baptist as a reincarnation of Elijah - but reincarnation requires one to die a physical death in order to be reincarnated (ceteris paribus), so when Jesus mentions John as Elijah he cannot be talking about reincarnation Elijah never died - in fact the two pople who were said to come before the Messiah arrives are Elijah and Enoch - both were taken into the heavens did not die a physical death so there really isn't much in the way of reincarnation in the Bible as most supporters insinuate. What do you guys think - in terms of masonry and christianity that is? ?? fractal 3rd, Just because Enoch and Elijah were 'taken into the heavens' (by aliens?), doesn't mean that "they never died". Everyone dies a physical death including Enoch, Elijah, Jesus, and Muhammad.Maybe you should read Reincarnation - The Missing Link In Christianity by Elizabeth Claire Prophet. Also read The Phoenix Fire Mystery.Christians believe that "the Christ will return" and there will be a "resurrection of the dead." How is that going to work? (A) Skeletons will magically come out of graves and reform in their original bodies, as will the cremated, and lost at sea. Picture Michael Jackson's Thriller. or (B) Reincarnation. The Masonic ritual of H---- A---- is a veiled refernce to reincarnation. All of Freemasonry's predecessors/influences believed in reincarnation, i.e. Ancient Egyptians, Druids, Greeks, Romans, Druids, Knights Templar, Gnoistics, etc. - Brad Watson, Miami Albert Einstein reincarnated 7seals.yuku.com
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Post by beersheva on Dec 6, 2011 20:02:45 GMT
One of ALBERT PIKES rare books that is in the SCOTTISH RITE Library on WILSHIRE BLVD. in LOS ANGELES, CA USA, claimed that FREEMASONRY was UNIVERSAL JUDAISM. I am not a MASON, so I can't really address whether that's true or not. BUT, in KABBALAH, TRADITIONAL JEWISH KABBALAH, the reincarnation of a nefesh (soul) is a given, and that a soul returns again and again in order to correct the mistakes it has made and re-attain UNION with G-d. Sometimes that soul is given another soul to exist along with it in the same body in order to assist it's evolution and TIKUN (repair) it's separation from G-d. There are degrees of separation and specific times or events that the soul can use to repair damage that it has incurred over one or more lifetimes. You might say that NATAL ASTROLOGY is the matrix of CELESTIAL forces (ZODIACAL and PLANETARY) that G-d has placed any particular soul in at the time of it's birth, constellating the LIGHT in matter as a physical body in the WORLD OF ACTION in order that the soul can evolve through choices and experiences specific to it's need. oops, that was a long-winded sentence, sorry.
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Post by beersheva on Dec 6, 2011 20:24:23 GMT
I've read that real secrets, real mysteries CANNOT be communicated, at least not very easily, and many many articles, or books I have read or from people I have known personally in various ESOTERIC traditions WHO THINK THEY KNOW, very often know very little, especially how BIG their EGO appears to others. The degree of EGO expansion a person has is in inverse relation to how spiritually developed they are, as has often been said, and that it's VERY DIFFICULT for someone of any degree of learning, mathematics, biology, physics and so on, but especially esoteric learning----NOT to fall into that BIG EGO trap. Re-incarnation gives each soul continuing chances to overcome the GNOSTIC conception of the soul's fall through the planetary zones, levels, and taking on the negative archetypes of them, the PLANETS, and then rectifying those POWERS, or re-ascending up the ETZ CHAIM or levels of LIGHT.
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