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Post by leonardo on Dec 1, 2004 19:30:08 GMT
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Post by taylorsman on Dec 1, 2004 23:03:31 GMT
Lord Petre, who was GM in the late 1700s I think, was an RC.
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Post by offramp on Dec 2, 2004 6:37:38 GMT
I know that Prince Michael of Kent, Grand Master of Mark Masonry, married a catholic. But I don't think he is one himself.
I know that some English Kings have converted to catholicism very very late in life, like Charles II.
George VI perhaps?
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Post by taylorsman on Dec 2, 2004 9:50:54 GMT
I don't think George VI became an RC, even on his deathbed as did Charles II, but George IV may have done so, after all he married Mrs Fitzherbert an RC herself although this marriage was not recognised by British Law. Both of the Kent Bros have RC wives as Marie Christine von Rebnitz, wife of Prince Michael is of that religion, and the Duchess of Kent converted to Roman Catholicism a few years ago, but as far as I am aware both Prince Michael and The Duke of Kent have not followed their wives in that matter.
Perhaps some of the early Grand Masters who were commoners not aristocrats, were Roman Catholics?
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Post by leonardo on Dec 2, 2004 10:17:03 GMT
Yes, it does seem a tricky one to answer fully. But many thanks lads for having a stab at it. Perhaps in the fullness of time all will be revealed? I had heard about late (last minute, in fact) conversions to catholism, but wouln't be aware is these would actually count as answers in this case. I mean the person in question may well have been GM thoughout the most part of their masonic life as, for example, protestant, but then converts last minute on his death bed, this person could not in all honesty be forever known as a catholic GM. Just my opinion
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Post by taylorsman on Dec 2, 2004 10:31:21 GMT
I agree Leo, I have never given much credit to deathbed conversions to anything, be it Religion or Politics. Indeed, Christ himself said, "Not all those who cry Lord, Lord, shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven".
I would take a Roman Catholic Grand Master to be a man who was a practising and declared RC and who was contemporaneously Grand Master of English Freemasonry, be that Antient, Modern or UGLE.
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Post by taylorsman on Dec 2, 2004 10:35:36 GMT
On this general matter I feel it should be spelt out that there is no prohibition by UGLE on a Roman Catholic holding any Office in Freemasonry under its control. The ban comes from the Roman Catholic Church on its members being Freemasons, though even that is said to have been relaxed although there is some debate about this and to what extent.
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Post by leonardo on Dec 2, 2004 12:46:22 GMT
I would take a Roman Catholic Grand Master to be a man who was a practising and declared RC and who was contemporaneously Grand Master of English Freemasonry, be that Antient, Modern or UGLE. Steve, 100% with you on that. I'm aware of Rome's stance on those wishing to join such Brotherhoods and the Crafts acceptance of all; irrespective of religion, creed colour, etc. Rome's view has apparently softened on this subject, as you say, but it is still highly ambiguous, open to interpretation, and, ipso facto, misuse. ( Notice my deliberate attempt to include some Latin? Others may be more familar with the exact background to this and be willing to share their views.
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Post by offramp on Dec 2, 2004 14:26:28 GMT
Deathbed conversions may not be all they seem. Someone may be secretly a Roman Catholic for many years but only choose to announce it at the ultimate minute, for various reasons.
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Post by leonardo on Dec 2, 2004 14:48:58 GMT
Offramp,
Interesting comment. Certainly food for thought.
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Post by offramp on Dec 16, 2004 5:27:23 GMT
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Post by taylorsman on Dec 16, 2004 9:08:07 GMT
"It must have broken his heart to resign not only his grand mastership but his membership in the Craft as well. "
That would have been a demand of his new Religion, Roman Catholicism, as The Craft would have been indifferent to this, as it is now.
In my Mother Lodge we had two RC Members. One very wisely kept this matter from the knowledge of his Priests and happily practised both his Freemasonry and his Religion. The other was not so circumspect and came under great pressure from his Clergy to leave The Craft, which he did for a time. Later he moved to another parish where the Priest was more enlightened about such matters and he re-joined the Lodge. This was in the 1990s.
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