staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Dec 20, 2004 8:31:49 GMT
I have jumped being a steward foe several reasons BUT i dislike the fact that In some lodges.NOT MINE that Stewards duties include serving wine at the FB. They have paid for their meal too so why should they be running around pouring wine when people are perfectly capable of doing so themselves.If you have your own guest then look after him. I acknowledge seniority and respect and all that distinction stuff and dont mind helping with the raffle especislly as i have got a big mouth (loud voice). Opinions ??
|
|
Agent J
Member
On a Mission from God...
Posts: 127
|
Post by Agent J on Dec 20, 2004 9:04:13 GMT
I'd agree with that Staffs...I haven't found the same situation in the other couple of Side Orders I'm in, and I think the Festive Board is all the better for it.
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on Dec 20, 2004 9:06:49 GMT
With you all the way here Lee.
I would abolish the job title of Steward. It would still be possible for those newer members to attend LOI, any Freemason in good standing can do so, to learn the Ritual and stand in if needed at Meetings. I also agree that in this day and age it is servile to use other Brethren as Wine Waiters and Raffle Ticket Salesmen, and as you know I don't like Raffles at FBs anyway.
Most Centres these days have waiting staff who are paid to do that job and who do it well, or Brethren buy their own drink and serve themselves. This is even more the case if your Lodge dines as many London Lodges do at a restaurant , hotel or pub.
It's not as if the Stewards are given a free meal, perhaps they ought to be as recompense for having their's interrupted? I have been to one Lodge where no Stewards were appointed and others where it is a sinecure merely to permit them to "get on the ladder" but they do not act as Wine Waiters nor Ticket Sellers.
There is also the good point that these days some people do not drink alcohol at all or they prefer other drink to wine, or to buy their own wine of a better standard to that supplied. Personally, I would rather the meal cost went soley on the food and service and one bought one's own wine over and above to suit one's taste and pocket.
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Dec 20, 2004 13:14:37 GMT
in my lodge all bretren even new EAs are heavily encouraged to attend LOI as it is a good opportunity for them to start learning ritual and also a good way of making a relationship with the other brethren. They do not need to be stewards in our lodge to attend LOI . As a Steward of the lodge they ar ethen in effect an officer who may be called on to take up a stand by role up top SD. ( Correct ? ) and will be far too busy learning these parts if called on if an officer does not turn up. Remember ; we are all created equal. Lets make new members feel a big part of the lodge from an early stage. A good preceptor will give them a small menial job or sometghing to do and i have experienced this in my lodge.It really makes you feel part of something and wanted. With this sort of approach we can all ensure that the number of early dropouts decreases and members are retained.
|
|
|
Post by Jumile on Dec 20, 2004 13:53:17 GMT
I was made a Steward of my lodge in November (it doesn't have an LOI), and my duties do includ ensuring all glasses are charged, but they're kind about it. In fact, a number of the humbler members even jump up and charge the glasses if they notice a glass waning. So my personal experience on the matters raised is limited. Although I can see how the tendency to treat a Steward as a waiter might come about - but that would be from brothers being anything other than brothers.
Maybe it's because I'm Australian, but if any Freemason (and I do mean any: WM, Provincial Rank, Grand Rank... whoever) were to treat me as second class because of my holding the Steward's office, then he'd swiftly be brought to heel. If someone whose office I respect - as it is with military rank - subsequently choses to denigrate their office, then I'll treat them in kind.
|
|
|
Post by symbol on Dec 20, 2004 16:24:26 GMT
Call me old fashioned ( youre old fashioned ) yea yea but i think there is value to starting out Masonic life as a steward. It is a leveller for all and brings home that we are all equal and that we have all done it, it has value and the lodge benefits from an important job AS IMPORTANT as the WM. It is not servile nor should it be demeaning it is a job that some people do for life, so 10 meetings wont hurt.
We are all equal and this office should remind us of this. Im sure im in the moinority on this , so get out your firearms and shoot me down,,,,, im ready ,,,,,,,bring it on ;D
|
|
bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
|
Post by bod on Dec 20, 2004 16:49:00 GMT
'Removes spud gun from pocket and loads, aims...but refuses to fire...' We currently have one appointed steward in our lodge, if he isn't there what happnes? Well, the last meeting, I realised that the wine was still sat on the side waiting to be served so I got up and got on with it, our treasurer (holder of MGL) also got up and served the wine with me. In most lodges I'm sure it works the way that Jumile says, and as symbol points out it can be a great way of making new friends at the F/board. However, I still don't see the need for the lodge stewards to be serving the wine if you are in a restaurant or hotel, the food is served, why not the wine? Or why not leave a bottle of red & white on each table and let people serve themselves? Taylorsman's idea that each pays for their own and the wine cost is removed from the dining is a good idea - thats the way my Mark lodge works.
|
|
|
Post by middlepillar on Dec 20, 2004 23:36:52 GMT
With all due respect to everyone I think you have all missed out the best reason for having stewards.
If you are in a Lodge that is reasonably succesful, you will have joined a group of brethren about 50 strong, being a steward gives you the ideal oppurtunity to meet every single one of them, I am afraid I cannot agree with anyone who says it is a degrading experience. This is purely a mental state that you have got yourselves into, you must treat this as an office of the Lodge and grasp this chance to meet your brethren in a one on one. For some of them it will be the first time you have an oppurtunity to converse.
And before you say this is crap, I can honestly say that as a member of 17 orders (36 units!) and a newbie in 2 I enjoy being a Steward for the reasons I have stated. So seriously stop looking at the subservant side of this and use the office to get out there and meet your brethren, I truly love this oppurtunity and always use it to get to know all my new brethren.
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Dec 21, 2004 7:36:49 GMT
I always make a point of introducing myself to people i do not know in any case who might visit our lodge and if i joined another i would make a point of meeting them. I do not think in any term that being a Steward is demeaning but was also reiterating Steves point thet these Stewards have also paid for their meal and shopuld be able to enjoy it and in somne cases in London dining is not cheap. They will also get to meet brethren over a meal and having a getting to know them in that way other than the quick few seconds of wine pouring duties.
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on Dec 21, 2004 8:36:48 GMT
To an extent I can see some of Middlepillar's point as there are actually some Brethren who ENJOY Stewarding and some PMs even volunteer to do it a second time around as an ongoing duty being considered as "Senior" Steward and this leading the more Junior Brethren who are doing that job on the way "Up the Ladder". Not my scene, I have to say, but whatever floats your boat.
My solution would be for those who WISH to do so to be able to perform that duty, even for a few years if that is what they want to do, but to allow the more Ritualistically inclined to fast track to IG and onwards. I have known quite keen Brethren who have lost interest when faced with a number of years to get on The Floor. Some have joined other, smaller Lodges and progressed but some simply fade away. Conversely, there is a Brother in one Lodge who did only wish to be a Steward , was miserable in the year he was pushed into advancng to IG and was delighted to be allowed to revert to his former role and do what he enjoyed best rather than progress to JD. His choice and I respect it.
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Dec 24, 2004 8:52:30 GMT
The Working tools of a Steward (Courtesy of Good Companions Lodge):
The address goes as follows: W.M. etc., This evening we have been privileged to witness the raising of a Brother, worked in excellent fashion by the W.M. and his team. Immediately after Bro. _____ was re admitted, the W.M. appointed and invested him as a Steward. This was done formally but without ceremony, indeed if you were not fully alert, you could have missed it! The office of Steward is the first office to which a Brother is appointed. An important first step. Is there no ceremony to mark this? Did our ancient Brethren do it this way? Researches have shown that there was a ceremony, not in the ritual book, handed down from time improbable, by word of mouth alone, now sadly rarely seen. This evening with the assistance of my W.Bro. the D.C. and my Bro. the J.W. an explanation of this archaic ceremony will be given. I shall therefore request the D.C. to put the necessary questions.
D.C. Bro.________ where were you first prepared to be made a Steward? ANSWER: In the body of the Lodge by the W.M's' pedestal. D.C. Where next? ANSWER: At the social board adjoining the Lodge. D.C. Describe the mode of your preparation. ANSWER: I was deprived of the right to eat my dinner in peace, a napkin was placed over my left arm, a bottle opener placed in my right hand and a corkscrew was hung about my neck. (J.W. does this) D.C. When did this take place? ANSWER: Immediately after I was raised to the third degree. D.C. In this country many Master Masons usually have to wait for promotion to the Steward's bench, how do you account for that which at first view appears a paradox? ANSWER: The Good Companions being a Lodge of Brewers, and drinkers being universally spread through its' membership, it necessarily follows that the demand for stewards must always be at its' meridian with respect to Good Companionship. D.C. What is Stewardship? ANSWER: A Peculiar system of servitude, Practised by few for the benefit of many. D.C. Name the three grand Principles on which Stewardship is founded. ANSWER: Courtesy, prompt clearing of the empties and willingness at all times to bring a beer when properly called upon. D.C. With what were you invested? ANSWER: The working tools of a Steward, namely the napkin, the bottle opener and the corkscrew. D.C. Explain their separate and conjoint significations. ANSWER: The napkin being white, denotes the purity of the beverages we serve. The bottle opener is an instrument which acts on the Principle of leverage and enables beer to be opened for the brethren and our visitors and the Corkscrew, which works with a winding motion, is meant to remind us of the staircase up which our ancient brethren went to receive their refreshment. D.C. What refreshment did they receive? ANSWER: Scruple and roasted hens. D.C. Why this Peculiar menu? ANSWER: Scruple was a well-known strong ale to which they felt justly entitled, and roasted hens were served frequently by the Temple caterers in those days. D.C. What was in the two great Crates which were placed at or near to the entrance to the Social Board? ANSWER: That on the left contained Bass and that on the right Worthington D.C. What are their separate and conjoint significations? ANSWER: The former denotes Strength, the latter to Inebriate and when conjoined, Instability, for the Worshipful Master said, "With strong beer I will inebriate these my Brethren and make them remember MY year in office for ever!"
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on Dec 24, 2004 9:19:29 GMT
;D
Absolutely Brilliant Lee!!!!!!
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Dec 24, 2004 9:24:27 GMT
Thank you Steve,Have a look on Leos Chaff thread and Christmas in NZ. There is a Xmas poem i have posted.
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on Dec 24, 2004 9:52:55 GMT
At the risk of mixing two threads, how about Stewart as a Waiter? ;D
Seriously, he would great in a tuxedo recommending a good wine or the plat du jour!
|
|
|
Post by Doric on Dec 27, 2004 0:37:09 GMT
The reason the Stewards serve wine is because it's bloody rude to place a bottle on the table, and therefore only Stewards should have access to wine.
I frequently act as Steward in Lodges I'm visiting when there are too few of them appointed & present. It's a brilliant way to get to speak to every one.
And anyone who thinks that the office of Steward is beneth them or should be banned, is nothing short of a pompous ass.
The PGM in at least 2 Provinces hold the Office of Steward in private Lodges, and carries out those duties well/
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on Dec 27, 2004 10:24:12 GMT
".... it's bloody rude to place a bottle on the table..."
Is that West Midlands Manners, or perhaps some old Military rule? I've never heard that before, and I have been to many Lodges etc South of the Trent where Brethren buy their own Wine or other Drink and it is placed on the Table in front of them to serve and imbibe as they desire. If it's rude to have bottle of wine on a table then all restaurants etc I have been to are nests of bad manners, to say nothing of Mayor's Banquets etc when I was a Local Councillor.
As to the role of and need for Stewards this is yet another thing on which Bro Doric and myself will have to beg to differ.
I'll take my pompous ass and go and have some breakfast, without wine, its too early.
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Dec 27, 2004 12:27:26 GMT
And i would be most displeased if i had paid £30 for dining in london which seem to be the average cost and then see it go cold while i poured wine. I attended five orders lodge in Nov and the wine was served by the wiaters and waitresses . Do you knowthey even left a jug of water on the table (how rude) ;D ;D
|
|
bod
Member
UGLE - MM (London), MMM RAM(Middx), OSM (London)
Posts: 1,296
|
Post by bod on Dec 27, 2004 12:43:01 GMT
".... it's bloody rude to place a bottle on the table..."
No it's not - they can put a jug of water on the table without a problem, what's wrong with a bottle of red/white wine? Surely we're not such a bunch of stuffed shirts in freemasonry that we expect to be waited on hand foot and finger by 'the juniors'? Or are there really some crusties out there that can't lower themselves to lift a bottle of wine off the table? There is nowt wrong with having the office of steward in the lodge, and no doubt at some lodges/dining halls there is a need for them to serve the wine, but not when you are already paying for serving staff.
|
|
|
Post by taylorsman on Dec 27, 2004 12:43:29 GMT
Do you knowthey even left a jug of water on the table (how rude)" Perhaps Doric could change it into wine?
|
|
staffs
Administrator
Staffs
Posts: 3,295
|
Post by staffs on Dec 27, 2004 12:47:39 GMT
Doric, What everyone is saying that it is much better to pour your own wine. In Brighton you buy your wine separate and if you have a few guests you look after them yourselves and pour theirs.Not too hard to do.
|
|