staffs
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Staffs
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Post by staffs on Dec 24, 2004 14:17:16 GMT
At an installation why is it that Past Masters are invested to the Left of the WM and those who have not been through the chair are invested to the right of the WM ?
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Post by mrmason on Dec 24, 2004 15:33:20 GMT
Hi Staffs, Must be an English thing. I have only ever seen the IPM sit to the left of the new RWM, because the PGM site to the RWM's right.
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staffs
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Staffs
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Post by staffs on Dec 24, 2004 15:35:02 GMT
Bob,The IPM does sit to the WMs left and PGMs etc left but i am talking about investing the officers
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Post by Jumile on Dec 24, 2004 17:41:21 GMT
I think you'll notice it's the same even at non-investment approaches to the WM.
I was told a couple of months ago that PMs always approach the WM from his left and non-PMs always approach the WM from his right. I don't know why, though.
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Post by taylorsman on Dec 24, 2004 18:01:50 GMT
It simply shows that they have been through The Chair and thus are PAST Masters. The DC will bring the Officer to be Invested up to the North of the WM if he is not a PM but to the South if he is. Also note that when the Officers process into the Lodge the WM and Wardens stand to the Right of their Pedestals (looking to the front thereof) and when the WM says "Brethren, assist me to Open the Lodge" they all enter from that side and at the Closing when they leave they do so by the Left.
Now I did read that in the past, well before the Union of 1815, there was a Past Masters Degree worked by the Antients to enable a Brother to be exaulted to Royal Arch as that was required in those days. He was Installed for a short time but then relinquished the Right of their Chair to the real WM. Perhaps this custom has echoes of this old working? Middlepillar may be able to throw some light on this?
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Dec 24, 2004 22:08:20 GMT
The above is actually quite straight forward:
Everything in masonry is done in a regular manner. We square the pavement. All should turn in a clockwise direction for positive flow. The Master, Wardens etc enter from the right ,exit to the left, continuing this clockwise flow.
Following your year in the chair, your next position must be tha of IPM, which is always to the LEFT of the master, the place you have just exited.
Thus when being invested in Office, all those who have been thru' the chair are invested to the left. Those yet to reach the chair are invested to the right as they have not yet passed that position in the East.
Incidently, in CoMasonry, all Past Master visitors to our Lodges sit in the East - those who have been thru' OUR Lodge chair to the Left those from other chairs to the right. - again signifying that they have been in a particular chair, but also as VISITORS have the place of Honour to the right of the Master.
Another reason the IPM sits on the Left, he is no longer senior to the Master!
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staffs
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Staffs
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Post by staffs on Dec 24, 2004 22:11:15 GMT
Then is the IPM the most Senior past master or the most Junior past master. Is he most senior as IPM
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Post by Jumile on Dec 24, 2004 22:25:08 GMT
I did read that in the past, well before the Union of 1815, there was a Past Masters Degree worked by the Antients to enable a Brother to be exaulted to Royal Arch as that was required in those days. I wonder if this was the 4th (not Chapter) degree that bod mentioned in a conversation earlier this week? Apparently some present day lodges that consider themselves Antient (or pre-Modern, and not united/AF&AM) still work this additional "Craft level" degree.
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Post by taylorsman on Dec 24, 2004 23:02:57 GMT
So I understand Matt. I was discussing this last week at Acon with some Brethren, who had seen a demonstration of this Installed Master Degree.
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Dec 25, 2004 5:00:25 GMT
Whilst in the role of IPM, he certainly is the ranking OFFICER, but once back to general duties is then one of the PM's. From then on we generally see all Brn as equal, tho' naturally PM's have considerably more experience than those climbing the ladder.
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Post by taylorsman on Dec 25, 2004 7:43:44 GMT
Hubert, firstly a Merry Xmas.
As regards the IPM, to be pedantic according to the B of C he is NOT actually an Officer in UGLE Freemasonry, but holds that position as of right having been the previous WM. He is neither Appointed by the new WM nor Elected like the Tyler or the Treasurer.
Depending on the particular Lodge he is either Yesterday's Man and has a bit of a sinecure, or has to prop up his successor and has a lot to do.
The problem for IPMs arises when they have done that year and then may have no Office to fill, though in some Lodges the Office of Tyler is then taken for a year by that member. Others will at this time proceed in other Orders if they are in any or in other Lodges where they may do The Chair therein.
I personally would consider the PM who has the longest service since leaving The Chair to be the Senior PM of a Lodge.
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Post by mrmason on Dec 25, 2004 8:58:35 GMT
Hi Staffs, sorry I misread your first post Certainly in my lodge and others that I've sat in in Scotland there is no left or right when Installing anybody. There all in the middle of the floor in front of the RWM. I did witness the Virtual Past Masters degree worked in the York Rite in the USA a few years back. This is the one which preceeds the Royal Arch degree, and is worked for the same reason that Steve mentions. The candidate is told that although he has recieved the degree he is not classed as a PM until he governed a lodge for 12 months. Straying off the subject slightly we do the same in the Cryptic and Mariners sometines. If the new PGSupt nominates a commisioned officer who has not been through the chair in those two orders he gives them those degrees so that they can attend all the Installations for the next 5 years. But he can't wear the jewels or claim to be a PWCN/PTIM until he has sat in those chairs for 12 months.
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Post by taylorsman on Dec 25, 2004 9:32:41 GMT
Seasons Greetings. I have known in the Mark Degree of a Brother being put through the Chair as he already in High Office in Craft, but although that made him WM and at the following RAM Installation, WCN, he relinquished the Chair of both and the "real" WM/WCN was then Installed.
Not a process I like but I realise why this is done in the case of High Rankers and Royals etc.
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Post by whistler on Dec 25, 2004 9:56:03 GMT
Seasons Greetings. I have known in the Mark Degree of a Brother being put through the Chair as he already in High Office in Craft, but although that made him WM and at the following RAM Installation, WCN, he relinquished the Chair of both and the "real" WM/WCN was then Installed. Not a process I like but I realise why this is done in the case of High Rankers and Royals etc. I guess I am with Hubert on this the IPM is an Officer of the Lodge - it is an Office held by right is confered in the Bro when he is elected Master of the Lodge - After the year as IPM, he is a Past Master, and as such he is equal to any other Past Master in the Lodge. For the IPM to spend the next year outside the door of the Lodge as Tyler, whilst not in any way lessening the important esoteric and practical work of the Tyler, on a Human level it is a great ego check. To go from the High rank in the East to the Esoteric Double of the Inner Guard
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Post by middlepillar on Dec 25, 2004 13:59:52 GMT
[quote author=Taylorsman Now I did read that in the past, well before the Union of 1815, there was a Past Masters Degree worked by the Antients to enable a Brother to be exaulted to Royal Arch as that was required in those days. He was Installed for a short time but then relinquished the Right of their Chair to the real WM. Perhaps this custom has echoes of this old working? Middlepillar may be able to throw some light on this?[/quote] Steve I too have read this, but my knowledge is unfortunatley no greater than yours on this, I have just read this thread and there is some interesting points being put down, but it is Christmas Day and I have a Turket to carve so i'm out of here till tommorow at least! - boy am I hungry!
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Dec 25, 2004 21:17:07 GMT
Hi Taylorsman, Thanx for the greetings, and I trust you are enjoying a right royal time today.
I agree mostly with your statements, though in CoM it is an office, allbeit as of right. as per you comments below:
"As regards the IPM, to be pedantic according to the B of C he is NOT actually an Officer in UGLE Freemasonry, but holds that position as of right having been the previous WM. He is neither Appointed by the new WM nor Elected like the Tyler or the Treasurer."
We do however have a more important role for him in that he represents the "conscience" or "higher self " of the new Master. Siting on the Masters' left he is ever present to assist and correct any issue that the Master might be unsure of..(acting as a promt to keep the flow going if necessary, or giving advice on proceedure should the Master clam up)
Regarding the position of Tyler, this was the next usual office taken by our IPM's, again to reinforce the letting go of authority - as whistler mentions in his post.
It's great to see our similarities and also where there are slight differences. I appreciate your comments and wish you all the best for 2005.
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Post by Proton on Dec 27, 2004 14:12:10 GMT
From Taylorsman There was at one time a degree called Passing the Chair. At that time post Union of 1813 or so, it was a requirement to join the RA that one had to be an Installed Master or a PM in the Craft. This had the effect of restricting the numbers of brethren eligible to join the RA. The Passing the Chair Degree got around this problem. In that it gave the receipent the WM's sign token and word without having been through the chair. It was probably the numbers game that was being played here! ;D Things changed, post Union, when in 1834 the Duke of Sussex's Committee met and reformed everything in the RA and one such change was that that one DID NOT have to be an Installed Master to join the RA. There were other changes but these have been discussed elsewhere. Seasons Greetings to You All Proton
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