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Post by rich9999 on Jan 3, 2005 16:42:47 GMT
Is the Mark Degree a continuation in your Craft Lodges as a 4th degree?
Or is it the same as we do in Canada.
Craft Lodge has 3 degrees than we carry on to either Royal Arch or Scottish Rite.
RichN
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Jan 3, 2005 16:45:05 GMT
We have 3 degrees in craft (Blue Lodge )to be a Master Mason
Other side degrees exist and I am not in Chapter or Mark so i will leave an explanation to the more experienced brethren who can answer this better than myself.
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Jan 3, 2005 16:45:51 GMT
Rich,what do you class as the Mark degree in Canada ??
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Post by rich9999 on Jan 3, 2005 17:07:34 GMT
The Mark Master Mason Degree..........
It is the first degree of the Royal Arch.
Skeandhu being a Scottish Mason for years before coming to Canada, explained to me that in Scottish Lodges the Mark Degree was the natural progression, after you finshed your MM degree
Has this been changed over the years?
Is this just in Scotland?
RichN
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 3, 2005 17:35:36 GMT
Rich that is how I understand the Scots system.
We here in England under UGLE are out of step on this one. Mark is a separate Degree with its own Organisation and Grand Master (who at this time happens to be the Brother of the GM of Craft who is also Grand Superintendant of Royal Arch).
There was actually a vote passed over 120 years or so ago in Grand Lodge to incorporate Mark but using one of those annoying and pedantic procedural rules that infest the English way of doing things the opponents of this move were able to overturn this vote at the next Meeting. and that is how it has stayed ever since.
So Mark is off to the side and, I feel, is not given the honour it deserves by many UGLE Craft Masons who tend to go straight into Royal Arch here without first being Advanced into Mark, that being allowed here but not in other Constitution such as GL of Scotland where one has to be an MMM before becoming a Companion in Royal Arch. I was first Advanced into Mark, then having been Elevated into RAM in the interval, I was Exualted into RA some six months later.
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Post by rich9999 on Jan 3, 2005 18:22:12 GMT
Thank you for the fast response.
My intent is to join the Royal Arch this year.
I have been told that the Mark Master Degree completes the craft degrees. I feel this is the best route for me to go. This is where my interests lie.
I am really looking forward to it.
RichN
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 3, 2005 18:26:24 GMT
I wish you well Bro Rich!
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Post by middlepillar on Jan 3, 2005 19:41:15 GMT
Rich Following on from Taylorsman I belive your system in Canada is almost the same as Scotland, where you take your Mark Degree before you can enter HRA. Which you do by participating in the Passing of the veils ceremony(In Scotland). Bob (Mr mason) I am sure will confirm this or put me right if I have strayed from the correct path. I believe in Scotland they have a different system of Mastership for the mark (It is done through The Royal Arch) I wonder if Bob or anyone else who knows would be kind enough to post the Procedure of Mark, Chapter and the installation ceremonies. Just so we can be sure of what we are talking about!?
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Post by whistler on Jan 4, 2005 8:00:00 GMT
The was an old now unworked Fourth Degree - Entitled "Secret Master" Over the Masters Chair was a hanging a Circle,within which was an equilateral triangle , in the centre of that is a blaziing star with a Hebrew letter in the center.. The Lodge was lit by eight lights, two by two, in the North, south east and west. No working tools were used in the lodge" A lot of interesting symbolism in this "Fourth Degree"
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Jan 4, 2005 8:19:47 GMT
The French branch of LDH do work the 4th Degree, in preference to the Mark I beleive. When I was there in 1999 at the International Convention they initiated any who were interested to the full gathering of those elligible to visit. As so many applied i was content to observe, and a very interesting ceremonial, somewhat as involved as the HRA.
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Jan 4, 2005 8:22:06 GMT
Whistler ,The secret master degree .Was this in Craft of co masonry ?
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Agent J
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On a Mission from God...
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Post by Agent J on Jan 4, 2005 8:46:37 GMT
Staffs mate, Secret Master is the 4th degree of the Ancient and Accepted Rite, or as we know it in this neck of the woods, Rose Croix.
By the way...Happy New Year each!
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Post by mrmason on Jan 4, 2005 9:21:39 GMT
Hi Middlepillar as requested ;D
In Scotland most MM's recieve their mark degree in their mother lodge. The lodge would be raised to the 3rd and then lowered to the 2nd and then opened on the mark for it to be conferred. If a brother then joins the Arch he will firstly take an affiliation obligation in the mark to join the Mark lodge which is worked within that particular chapter. He then goes on to have the Excellent Master and Arch degrees conferred upon him. If he joines the Arch without having the mark degree already then the chapter is adjourned and opened in the mark for the degree to be conferred. In most chapters the mark degree, EM and Arch degree is done on seperate nights. if no mark needs to be conferred then the allifliation to the mark and the EM degree is done on one night and the Arch on the other.
At the Installation of a RWM in a Scottish lodge there are no secrets given to the RWM regarding the Mark degree. He becomes RWMM by virtue of his office as RWM and only when the degree is conferred. However in the Arch at the Installation of the MEZ, the Chapter is adjourned after he has been installed, and opened in the mark lodge for the secrets of the RWMM degree to be conferred. Therefore only an installed 1st principal in the Arch has the secerets of an Installed MM and can attend the installation in England or elsewhere. As has been mentioned we in Scotland don't need to be an Installed master to go through the chairs of the chapter. Likewise if a chapter was short of a new first principle then the secrets of each principal could be given to the companion so that he can take the chair at the installation. However he would not get a certificate for the 3rd or 2nd chairs as he would have to complete 12 months in those offices. Likewise he could jump from 3rd to 1st at an Injstallation, but like all chapters and lodges anyone can be put forward for the chair if nominated.
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 4, 2005 9:29:40 GMT
As I now understand things here under UGLE we no longer need to be an Installed Craft WM or PM to become a Principal in RA, following the recent changes.
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Post by middlepillar on Jan 4, 2005 13:29:03 GMT
Mr Mason
I knew you would come up trumps!!
Many thanks for taking the time to explain the Scottish system, for us Southerners (especially me!) it is now as clear as mud ;D ;D
(only joking!)
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Post by rich9999 on Jan 4, 2005 13:37:19 GMT
In my lodge there is a picture showing a pyramid, with Royal Arch figures going up one side, and Scottish Rite figures going up the other side and they meet at the top.
Two different paths to follow, but they both come to the same end.
If I live a long and prosperous life I would like to do both.
Do you know the picture I am talking about?
What is the crowning glory of this picture?
33 degree SR and the highest RA are they the same?
RichN
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Jan 4, 2005 19:24:51 GMT
Jerry,Agent J.
Thank you for that info and not something i would have known as not in that order and cant be yet.I might be eager but not that eager
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Post by rich9999 on Jan 5, 2005 0:49:53 GMT
Sorry Staffs .........I wrote this early this morning, when I was half a sleep.
I will rephrase the question.........
33 degree is the highest rank in Scottish Rite.
What is the highest ranking degree in the Royal Arch?
RichN
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Post by mrmason on Jan 5, 2005 7:36:03 GMT
Hi Rich, what you refer to is the system that is worked in the USA. The one on the left is the Scottish Rite and the one on the right is the York Rite. We work the degrees in much the same order but none are superior to others. Also we don't need to join the Royal and Select Masters to qualify for the Knights Templars. Regarding the Royal Arch in the UK, the highest degree worked is the Royal Arch degree
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