giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 26, 2005 7:21:23 GMT
I would like to raise this point.
Bro. Arturo Reghini, mathematician and Pythagorean wrote that Freemasonry consists in three degree, no more. The so called High Degrees - he intended those of AASR - were just a repetition of them.
In fact, they correspond to the three tasks of the initiate: to know: (i) himself, (ii) the surrounding environment and (iii) the transcendent.
Of course, they act just as a reminder, because IMO it is not possible to achieve these aims so long as man is in the corresponding degree: one year or even less is a too short time. In Lodge, I think, we are all apprentices and masters at the same time, although the level of one's conscience differs from person to person.
I suspect that collars and scarves may device men from the Path. Metals are not only coins and swatches but, and further more, the hypertrophies of one's Ego.
I don't know which Rite you practice and if you have High Degrees, too.
In any case, I will appreciate your comments.
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Post by taylorsman on May 26, 2005 7:50:25 GMT
I have never accepted the old chestnut that "There are only Three Degrees in Freemasonry".
Yes, the Degrees of EA, FC and MM are the Foundations and one has to, at the very least, have attained these to go onto any of the Higher Degrees which to me stand in their own right. Being in all of the well known ones here in England I can agree that the legends and lessons of the Three Craft Degrees do recurr in the Higher Degrees, usually amplified and with far greater Drama. The Royal Order of Scotland illustrated this beautifully for me as it contains references to all of the other Degrees I am in and made the whole picture come together for me in a most satisfactory and moving manner.
I am in A&AR Rose Croix which has 33 Degrees , I am at the 18th. Most are not worked but confered in name and most members do not rise higher than the 30th Knight Kadosh Degree, the 33rd being limited to Inspectors General of Districts.
I do agree that in UGLE Lodges there is too much of a tendency to "bang them through" and a man can go from EA to MM in as many months. I feel that a minimum of 6 months should elapse between the Craft Degrees with a further year before entering Royal Arch.
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Post by Bondi on May 26, 2005 12:03:48 GMT
I have never accepted the old chestnut that "There are only Three Degrees in Freemasonry". I agree with your statement, although maybe in a different way. I see the 3 degrees as a building, and the A&AR, HRA, YR etc as a means to fill that building. All the info is in the 3, but not easily accessible and as we move further away in time from the supposed occurances information that at one time would of been general becomes forgotten. The appended bodies, which I see as parallel, not higher, degrees re-inforces, explains furthers, fills in the gaps etc of the craft degrees. Having only just been raised, and waiting before jumping into any other bodies, I have not experienced anything other than EA, FC, and MM so I am quite prepared to be wrong, but this is my current understanding/interpretation.
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Post by taylorsman on May 26, 2005 12:20:33 GMT
Bondi, yes one could view the Higher Degrees as being parallel to the Three Basic Degrees of Craft Freemasonry, as their Legends are repeated and amplified in some of the Higher Orders.
Many Freemasons, whatever high rank they may achieve in Craft never join these or at most may go into an RA Chapter associated with their Craft Lodge. Others such as myself enjoy the big picture made available by being in the various Degrees but have no wish to rise to any eminence in Craft apart from having been in the Chair of a Lodge, a few manage to do both.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 26, 2005 12:27:23 GMT
If higher degrees are intended as a specialization school, that's ok.
But in Italy few have this attitude, especially in AASR.
The hierarachy is very tough and it is not based on higher levels of consciousness or knowledge.
Myself was 18 AASR and 15 Mizraim and Memphis. When I left I felt as having just escaped from a prison and a loony bin, respectively.
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Post by taylorsman on May 26, 2005 13:09:08 GMT
Giovanni, if anything here in England that situation is reversed. In the Higher Degrees there is a far more relaxed attitude than in Craft where Formality and Rank play a large part and there is more control from on top. As an example, I was at a meeting of one of the Higher Degrees and they wished to advance a Brother but required a Dispensation. The equivalent of the PGM was present and he gave his approval there and then. In Craft due notice would have been required in writing to the Provincial Grand Secretary and a fee would have been required.
I really enjoy the Higher Degrees.
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Post by atarnaris on May 26, 2005 13:53:37 GMT
When I left I felt as having just escaped from a prison and a loony bin, respectively. Loony bin why?
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 26, 2005 14:24:04 GMT
Andy, they have no idea of the difference between esoteric and magick. So they burn incense, pray with loud voice, some dance in order to call for energies... Nice guys, in the professional life most are keen professional. perhaps they are in the need to compensate their rationalism.
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Post by atarnaris on May 27, 2005 12:08:28 GMT
Bro Giovanni,
Is that in the AASR or in the M&M?
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 27, 2005 15:22:05 GMT
Bro Giovanni, Is that in the AASR or in the M&M? M&M, Andy
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Post by hollandr on May 28, 2005 7:28:33 GMT
I would like to raise this point. Bro. Arturo Reghini, mathematician and Pythagorean wrote that Freemasonry consists in three degree, no more. The so called High Degrees - he intended those of AASR - were just a repetition of them. Giovanni I think it is useful to distinguish craft masonry where the 3 degrees are modelled on the lodge to which The Widow belongs. In red and black masonry, the agendas are more closely tied to earth events and families (bloodlines). Therefore are arguably less important than the stellar events implied in the EA TB. So both sides are correct. And a brother who sticks to blue lodge may well progress more in the temple in the heavens than a brother who takes higher degrees Cheers Russell
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 28, 2005 10:57:30 GMT
[quote author=Russell Holland link=board=esoterical&thread=1117092083&start=10#0 date=111726531
So both sides are correct. And a brother who sticks to blue lodge may well progress more in the temple in the heavens than a brother who takes higher degrees [/quote]
Well spoken. Wise words
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Post by atarnaris on May 29, 2005 10:31:37 GMT
Andy, they have no idea of the difference between esoteric and magick. Bro Giovanni, What is the difference?
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Post by atarnaris on May 29, 2005 10:33:30 GMT
Giovanni I think it is useful to distinguish craft masonry where the 3 degrees are modelled on the lodge to which The Widow belongs. Bro Russell, I know what the Blue Lodge is. But Red & Black Masonry? Do you mean Rose Croix & Knights Kadosh themes respectively?
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Post by hollandr on May 30, 2005 6:34:13 GMT
Bro Russell, I know what the Blue Lodge is. But Red & Black Masonry? Do you mean Rose Croix & Knights Kadosh themes respectively? Andrew Where I came from the colours referred as much to regalia as anything else. Hence HRA and RC were red - I think I would exclude Mark as an extension of FC. And 30th and beyond were black - and sometimes regarded as related to vengeance or on the higher level - the lords of karma - jointly known as the Recording Angel of the Book of Revelation. But since I did not get there I would not like to be too dogmatic. Cheers Russell
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 30, 2005 7:50:42 GMT
Bro Giovanni, What is the difference? The esotericism pertains to metaphysics: to study the relation between man and God, to discover the deity which is within us. It developes the pure trascendental intellect, letting us knowing by intuition. The magick pertains to the Nature. Magic powers are not spiritual but, rather, mental. You will surely remember the episode of the woman, with menstuation diseases, who is healed by Jesus by touching his garment. Jesus realizes that a strength come out of him. His comment was that these are just breadcrumbs for whelps, thus meaning that spirituality is quite another thing.
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