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Post by Trinityman on Jan 22, 2005 13:55:53 GMT
I understand that the rules for honours have changed but why is there less honours available now then there were before. Is it the reason that there there is too many provincial officers,are people living longer ? if those prov officers pass away then is there not an honour available ? Or does it make a situation and a divide of them and us and that the brother who does nor receive honours is looked down on by those who have got honours. Surely a prov rank shows your standing anyway. is there going to be a deluge of disillusioned past masters leaving when they find out they were not considered good enough for provincial honours. If this is the case then do away with them completely I know many questions or m i just a bit vague with the whole honours thing ?? Staffs GL have got themselves in a bit of a pickle with this issue and I don't know why. I've answered how they are allocated in my reply to Taylorsman but I can't tell you why GL have decided to reduce them overall. In principle I agree that there is no point having an honour that everyone gets, but looking upon them as milestones might be a better analogy. You are absolutely right that some people will be pissed off at not getting an honour and might leave. We would all like to think that honours are not that important but believe me, human nature being what it is some will not like it. Playing hardball and taking the approach of 'so what, if that's all they care about then they can leave' is not constructive as it's very rarely indeed that honours are all they care about. Doing away with (provincial) honours completely is not such a bad idea, but how would you implement it? What would be the point? - why not just let everyone have one after 10 years (say) as a mark of progress within the Craft? The whole business is fraught with difficulties. One thing is sure, however. Too much talk of honours is a complete distraction from the real business of freemasonry. I would rather we just all got on with whatever lights our fire, and if someone turns up in a few years and offers us a provincial rank we say 'thank you very much' and then get back to what we were doing.
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Post by Trinityman on Jan 22, 2005 14:05:19 GMT
To partly answer Lee's point I wish they would adopt the London System of only 3 grades, viz London Rank = the Rosette Appointment for those who have not gone through The Chair, London Grand Rank the First Honour, and Senior London Grand Rank as a Promotion, instead of the proliferation of "Past Provincial Senior Grand Toilet Attendant" etc and so forth! An idea with much merit, but if radical surgery were to be done on provincial pasts ranks wouldn't it be better just to get rid of them completely? These are foolish small minded people who ought to know better. Brown may spend a great deal of his time working with orphans. But people like to moan about something - that's human nature. Unfortunately. It's our job to try and educate these people - masonry provides a great opportunity for personal development but not everyone will take advantage of that. Luckily those kind of people are thin on the ground in my neck of the masonic woods, and are invariably of the older generation.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2005 19:03:11 GMT
Bill / Steve / Lee,
All very interesting and a debate that I am sure many will have differing views over, particularly the "Past" ranks. From my own point of view my initial post was made purely because I would like to do something useful that I believe I would enjoy, which would mean an active rank. Honorifics are of no interest to me and in any case many years down the road in my case.
Kevin
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Post by Mikepm on Jan 23, 2005 23:39:03 GMT
There will always be honours, and some will get honours before others. In investigating my provincial year book it normaly takes 6/7 years after coming out of the chair, and what you have contributed towards Freemasonry. But after closer examination i have noticed that some get past rank after 4/5 years, and the chosen few, active rank after 3/4 years, how this comes about i don't know,others wait 8/9 years or more. I think you should be rewarded by what you have contributed towards Freemasonry, which can come in many ways. In fact i was out the other night and a Grand Lodge Officer told me he achieved that Rank by his Job, which is working at G Q St, how can that be!! I think Taylorsman has a valid point, and so does Trinityman
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Post by taylorsman on Jan 24, 2005 1:52:55 GMT
I know of a case of a man getting an Acting Prov Rank while he was still in the Chair for the first time, yet others wait on average 7 years for their first Past Rank and some even longer especially now that the basis of allocation has changed. I'm afraid there is too much of "who you know" rather than a more transparent award system. That Bro Kevin is enthusiastc is great and there ought to be some way that he can openly apply, once he has been through the Chair, to do a job for London Metropolitan (or a Province) perhaps similar to the way Mr Mason tells us it works in Scotland.
As to how Honours are determined I have even read of one PGM who is on record as saying that he takes into account a man's contribitions to the Masonic Charities as one of the factors. Now that could be misinterpreted to make it appear that "W Bro Fat Wallet" will have a better chance than the Brother of modest means who does a lot of hard work for his Lodge . Like its everyday equivalent the Queens Birthday and New Years Honours List the whole things needs a drastic overhaul and should be far more open as to how it works.
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