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Post by parisfred on Mar 7, 2007 10:25:55 GMT
Hello , In some ritual on the second ° the FC discovers not a cubic stone but a "cubic stone with a pyramid" ( "pierre cubique a pointe") I have even seen it with an axe on top (!) Some say it's a problem of translation or a misunderstanding of an operative word ? Do you have any idea ?
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Mar 7, 2007 11:09:06 GMT
My understanding is that it is called a "Broached Thurnel." In a paper entitled Rough and Perfect (MasonicWorld.com), we read: Mackey quotes Parker’s “Glossary of Terms in Architecture” as follows:
“Broach or broche is an old English term for spire, still in use in Leicestershire, where it is said to denote a spire springing from the tower without any intervening parapet. Thurnel is from the old French, “tournelle,” a turret or little tower. The Broached Thurnel, then, was the Spired Turret. It was a model on which Apprentices might learn the principles of their art because it presented to them, in its various outlines, the forms of the square and the triangle, the cube and the pyramid.”
Modern authorities dispute this. G.W. Speth finds that Broach, in Scotland means to rough-hew. Thurnel, he states, is a chisel with which to rough-hew, rather than a model of a spired turret on which an Apprentice might learn to work. But, he inquires, what then becomes of the pyramid on the cube, displayed on the old tracing-boards? Moreover, the Scotch use “boast” as an alternate word for “broach,” and “boasted ashlar” can be found in modern dictionaries, meaning chiseled with an irregular surface. As a matter of fact, no one really “knows” just what our ancient brethren meant by Broached Thurnel; what we do know is that somewhere in the early formative period of the modern ritual, Broached Thurnel gave way to Perfect Ashlar. Consider the stone featured in Albrecht Durer's Melencolia (1514). It is not a Broached Thurnel, but it is suggestive of one. Note too the female angel holding a pair of compasses.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Mar 7, 2007 12:59:27 GMT
I am quite surprised to see this symbol in the 2nd degree. In fact the broached thurnel is a symbol of the 3rd: the matter (square, cube) turning into spirit (triangle, pyramid).
The axe on to the vertex symbolizes the thunderbolt, thus light. Thor used thunderbolts, but also the axe and the mallet, the two having the same meaning.
I quote Guénon:
Leibnitz, in his Monadology, says that "all the created monads are born, so to speak, by continual fulgurations of the Divinity from moment to moment". Thus, in conformity with the traditional data we have just been discussing, he associates the thunderbolt (French foudre, Latin fulgur) with the idea of the production of beings. (Symbols of Sacred Science. XXV, p. 170)
Juppiter stems from Sanskrit djaus-pater, where dj means light, pa to be at the head, to lead, ter is an active suffix: so "who gives light".
The double-Axe was known in Creta and has the same meaning of the vedic Vajra, a double edged spear, symbol of a "double force", itself single in essence, but with apparently opposite effects in its manifestation, like Shiva, creator and destroyer.
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Post by 2 BOWL CAIN on Mar 7, 2007 14:46:18 GMT
when king solomon sits in the east, how is he to see the first rays of sun if it is rising to his back? the broached thurnel was in the middle/alter(pre VSL), and of material that reflected, so when the first rays of sun crept into the temple from the east, it reflected back at solomon, so he knew to set the craft to work. at high noon, it reflected to the JW in the south for refreshment. at dusk, setting in the west, it would reflect back to the SW for the closing of day.
INHO, it was the original center peice of a lodge.
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Mar 7, 2007 19:54:19 GMT
when king solomon sits in the east, how is he to see the first rays of sun if it is rising to his back? the broached thurnel was in the middle/alter(pre VSL), and of material that reflected, so when the first rays of sun crept into the temple from the east, it reflected back at solomon, so he knew to set the craft to work. at high noon, it reflected to the JW in the south for refreshment. at dusk, setting in the west, it would reflect back to the SW for the closing of day. IMHO, it was the original center piece of a lodge. Two observations: Firstly, one point of difference between our temples (lodge rooms) and King Solomon's (if it existed) is that the latter is said to have been oriented with the porch or entrance in the East and the Sanctum Sanctorum in the West. Secondly, another point of difference is that King Solomon would not have sat enthroned in 'his' temple, which was essentially a house of god: He had his own palace which had already been built. Our temples appear to be an amalgam of the two buildings. Albeit, during construction and before the dedication of the temple and the installation of the Ark of the Covenant, there may have been no theological objection to his sitting thus. The same qualification may be given to any objection regarding the obvious need for artisans to be present in the Sanctum Sanctorum during construction, despite the later limitation of such access to the High Priest.
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on Mar 7, 2007 20:06:48 GMT
Bro. Phil,
I know that in the Operatives' lodge the WM sat in the West. However, i was not able to find any suitable explanation for that. Maybe he was the first to receive the sun's light, so to spread it to his Brothers.
Do you have any further thought?
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Tamrin
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Post by Tamrin on Mar 7, 2007 20:34:14 GMT
Bro. Phil, I know that in the Operatives' lodge the WM sat in the West. However, i was not able to find any suitable explanation for that. Maybe he was the first to receive the sun's light, so to spread it to his Brothers. Do you have any further thought? Only that this was the usual but not universal orientation of ancient temples, thus allowing the morning sun to illuminate (vivify?) the cult object. Some appear to have had a stellar orientation. And, before anyone comments, I am aware that 'orientation' literally means to situate in relation to the east: Here I am using the word in its usual, modern sense. Perhaps also of interest is the tradition whereby, as I recollect, to select H.A.'s successor from among the several artisans deemed worthy, King Solomon said he would appoint who ever first beheld the light of morning—All but one of the worthy craftsmen waited looking toward the east. Adoniram however looked toward the west and first noticed the sun's rays as they illuminated some distant clouds. This however is a Freemasonic invention and may have been created as a post hoc explanation for our peculiar orientation.
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Post by maat on Mar 7, 2007 22:22:16 GMT
In fact the broached thurnel is a symbol of the 3rd: the matter (square, cube) turning into spirit (triangle, pyramid). The axe on to the vertex symbolizes the thunderbolt, thus light. Thor used thunderbolts, but also the axe and the mallet, the two having the same meaning. Matter spiritualised... was my understanding also Gio. The thunderbolt could allude to the Qabalistic paths one can follow back to the Source. These paths take the pattern of the thunderbolt. The double headed axe can also allude to Alchemy - something must be divided, rendered down to its components before it can be reconstituted into a new and stable substance. The Master in the East/West argument - it is said that the Highest in Malkuth, the Crown is reflected or first seen in the lowest of Malkuth. So to see or find the King, you must seek to see him in the Pauper so as to speak. Blessed be the Poor in Spirit ? Maat
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Post by maat on Mar 7, 2007 22:27:05 GMT
Hello , In some ritual on the second ° the FC discovers not a cubic stone but a "cubic stone with a pyramid" ( "pierre cubique a pointe") I have even seen it with an axe on top (!) Some say it's a problem of translation or a misunderstanding of an operative word ? Do you have any idea ? This does not happen in our workings of the 2nd - however I can see that as Service is Love in Action and Love is the Key, then as we serve and perfect the cube, we would be shown the next step of the Plan. Interesting! Maat
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on Mar 8, 2007 2:12:34 GMT
Actually, I'm surprised to hear it spoken of as part of the second or third degree as Mackey, the Rev. Oliver and others say it, as the broached thurnel, is a working took of an EA. For example, here is an EA TB from the Rev. George Oliver's The historical landmarks and other evidences of freemasonry, explained, a series of practical lectures with copious notes; Volume I (1846) 21.3 MB, page 133 in the book, page 144 PDF (I've included the notes in the image). Please note the broached thurnel in the upper right, complete with the axe Bro. Fred mentioned: It was not long after I found this image that I also found out operative Masons, in the cathedral building period, really did use axes to cleave the stone. So it's not an imaginary symbol, it has a concrete manifestation, as do all of our symbols (at least those I've seen so far). A little later on, I found this in "The Lodge and its Furniture" by William Harvey, J.P., F.S.A. Scot. Provincial Grand Master of Forfarshire, 1934-1936 (with my italics): Full text available hereSo the first degree is a "hewer". And that means s/he must work with an axe upon the stone. And all this looks to me as if this *is* a tool fo the first degee. So, Keith (and everyone else), what do you make of that?
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Post by keith on Mar 8, 2007 4:21:07 GMT
I suppose the apprentice operative would have started off like everyone else, sweeping the floor and cleaning up, then he'd progress to getting the rough stone and making it somewhat square. Over the years he'd develop his skills until at the end of seven years he would be sufficiently skilled to produce a masterwork for the expert craftsmen in the Lodge to assess and decide whether his workmanship was good enough to qualify him as a craftsman, If he passed muster, he was accepted as one f them
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Mar 9, 2007 15:53:17 GMT
pierre cubique a pointe=a cube-shaped stone with pointy corners.
I think "a pyramid-shaped cubic stone" would be pierre cubique a pyramide.
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Mar 9, 2007 21:59:11 GMT
pierre cubique a pointe=a cube-shaped stone with pointy corners. I think "a pyramid-shaped cubic stone" would be pierre cubique a pyramide. OOH we HAVE missed you soooo much . Welcome back . what a great Friday its turning out to be ?
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