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Post by symbol on Feb 13, 2005 12:51:32 GMT
Im reading the book Born in Blood,, yes another templar based book. But and it is a big but, ive started it in the middle as i was interested in the explanation of some Masonic words and meanings, i have to say it is only a gut instinct but the explanation of French derived words does make sense but i have no proof other than whats written. Do u have any knowledge of this author.
One thing i would like to know is if it is supposed that some templars left France and headed up to Scotland , this or may not be truthful ( im not sure what is now ) what became of the Templars that were left in England apparantly there was short period of time that they were not arrested , so what happened to these people, why is it thought that only in Scotland that the links to Masons have grown, if there are links,,, which there appears to be little evidence in some corners,,,, but if this trend of thought proves correct then how come parallels did not strart in England too? Why is all thats written link Scotland to the Templar / Masons links, there appears to be the English link missing. Could it be there really are no links anywhere? Does anyone have any knowledge of the links of Masonic terms to the french derived answers, if so where does this french link come from? Was french a common language in England at that time ( excuse my ignorance of medeval history)
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Post by mrmason on Feb 13, 2005 16:28:18 GMT
To put the Argyll theory into perspective. In 1301 Edward the 1st had organised an alliance around Argyllshire which took in the clans of the MacDonalds of Islay and the MacDougall's of Lorn. Bruce being excommunicated by the Pope for his murder of Red Comyn in Dumfries changed the situation. The MacDougalls of Lorn were related to the Comyns through marraige and when Bruce, or Black( I'll mak sikkar) Douglas killed Red Comyn a blood fued was instantly formed. Although the MacDougalls were a land based clan they too held sea galleys of the coast of Argyllshire. This is proved in a letter date 1309 from Johyn macDougall to Edward the 2nd stating that he maintains galleys in Loch Etive( sea loch) and Loch Awe. Surely any Kt arriving would be noticed by particularly the feuding MacDougalls.
Bearing in mind that it was only Bruce that was excommunicated by the pope and not the country of Scotland. Many catholic bishops still held mass and abided by the papal bulls etc.
The point that I'm trying to make is that there is more to this myth of the fleeing KT than meets the eye. Many who have written of these goings on have not taken into account what was going on at the time with regards to the wars of independance.
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Feb 14, 2005 0:07:07 GMT
It does seem strange, doesn't it, that so many vitally important strands of the Templar Mythos seem to converge and interweave about such a small and out-of-the-way place as Scotland.
Almost suspiciously so, in fact. As if these were the elaborations of a bad liar, someone trying to distract the eye of history away from what's really going on, just out of view of the historical record.
However, I am reminded of the once commonly-held belief that the incidence of circular burial chambers in Scotland and Greece was evidence of Greek building techniques having migrated northwards. More accurate dating now suggests the transport of ideas was determinedly southwards.
So maybe the concentration of Masonic and Templar activities in Scotland are no more suspicious than the disproportionate contribution per capita which Scotland has made in the fields of art, science, literature, philosophy, scholarship and business.
We're just bloody wonderful, that's all ;D ;D ;D
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Post by hollandr on Feb 14, 2005 10:15:48 GMT
Ruffashlar You won't like this but: My observation (note the word) is that northern scotland - particularly the Moray Firth - was used for Atlantean colonies, much of the building being underground and still there. The atlantean influence then goes east and south into the Middle East taking their temple mysteries with them. The particular mysteries involved concerned will and governance. There were also several alien breeding projects going on in the area. For example, much later Himmler was very pleased to take over Norway because he considered the genetics were purer - better suited than German genetics for breeding the new race. There are more esoteric projects underway even now in Scotland making a most magnetic place. If you are interested in a more historical approach to what the scots got up to try www.celticnz.co.nz/ Cheers Russell
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Harmony
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Post by Harmony on Feb 14, 2005 10:59:26 GMT
My observation (note the word) is that northern scotland - particularly the Moray Firth - was used for Atlantean colonies, much of the building being underground and still there. Don't take this the wrong way - I am not "dissing" it. But how did you "observe" this?
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Post by taylorsman on Feb 14, 2005 11:43:47 GMT
"We're just bloody wonderful, that's all " Quote from Bro R.A.
Not wishing to downplay the talents of my native country but I do feel sometime that a little humilty on the part of the Scots would not go amiss. We have had to eat our words too often for it to be pleasent and the "here's tae us, wha's like us" atttitude can rebound. I can remember the shame of the Ally Macleod "Tartan Army" World Cup.
That being said, it is quite amazing how a little research shows that Scots were behind many of the great inventions we take for granted, especially in the fields of science and engineering, and in military exploits though those tend not to be lauded so much in these "PC" days.
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Post by hollandr on Feb 14, 2005 12:20:58 GMT
Harmony
I used to live in the Moray Firth where one or more of the colonies existed. There are various bits of suggestive evidence.
I started to write play about the journey of the atlantean royal heir to the Moray Firth to the underground colony there.
In that process I had series of visions and performed various inner investigations.
The particular sand dune that I identified as being above the colony turns out to have been identified by other people has having atlantean energies.
The royal heir comes to us in legend as Arthur. And it is likely that the hymn Jerusalem is about Arthur.
More recently I have met a number of people that exist with me in Atlantean scenes.
None of the above will seem like proof but together for me they make a significantly coherent picture that seems more credible than not.
I stopped writing the play when I no longer had a partner to practice the grail energies with. Arthur was the primary bringer of the grail energies to Britain - reflected in Blake's Jerusalem.
Now I again have a grail partner and perhaps I may recommence the description of those times.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by mrmason on Feb 14, 2005 21:33:41 GMT
Sorry Russell but you've lost me
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Feb 14, 2005 22:09:48 GMT
"My observation (note the word) is that northern scotland - particularly the Moray Firth - was used for Atlantean colonies, much of the building being underground and still there"
Note the word, observation, literally "kept in front of oneself", something seen closely with one's own eyes. A vision is not the same as vision. You cannot see something in your mind as surely as if it were seen with your eyes. And you certainly can't see something that's underground, no matter how good your eyes are.
And did those feet in ancient time refers, so I'm told, to the commonly-held belief that Jesus spent his formative years building rabbit hutches in Barnsley. Now William Blake literally did see angels in apple trees, and blood running down palace walls. Whoa, I'm surprised he didn't clock up some penalty points on his poetic licence with those whoppers.
However, that was a witty one about "There are more esoteric projects underway even now in Scotland". I assume this refers to the Roslin (Rosslyn) Institute. Ho ho.
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Feb 14, 2005 22:16:19 GMT
"I can remember the shame of the Ally Macleod 'Tartan Army' World Cup."
Taylorsman,
You will note I did not refer to Scotland in the context of football. ;D
Thankfully, ours is not *quite* the worst team in the world: I believe Bhutan and Burkina Faso are still thrashing that one out between them.
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Post by hollandr on Feb 15, 2005 9:45:54 GMT
I think that claims of Jesus being in Blake's Jerusalem are by those who have not read the second verse:
Bring me my bow of burning gold! Bring me my arrows of desire! Bring me my spear! O clouds unfold! Bring me my Chariot of Fire! I will not cease from mental fight; Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand Till we have built Jerusalem
My understanding of what Jesus taught does not include anything of the above. What happened to turning the other cheek? What happened to : resist not evil?
This material is much closer to what Arthur represents.
As to the meaning of "observation", I think Ruffashlar that some of your own preferences have intruded.
Try this for the etymology of observe:
c.1386, "to hold to" (a manner of life or course of conduct), from O.Fr. observer, from L. observare "watch over, look to, attend to, guard," from ob "over" + servare "to watch, keep safe," from PIE base *ser- "to protect" (see conserve). Meaning "to attend to in practice, to keep, follow" is attested from 1390. Sense of "watch, perceive, notice" is c.1560, via notion of "see and note omens." Meaning "to say by way of remark" is from 1605.
I believe that I have attended to and followed these things over 2 decades including seeing and noting omens - on both physical and non-physical levels.
Cheers
Russell
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Post by taylorsman on Feb 15, 2005 12:24:49 GMT
I claim no expertise on William Blake but I would have thought the words of the first verse refer to Jesus e.g. "Holy Lamb of God" , "Countenance Divine". As to the second verse I assume that is Blake's personal condemnation of the new factories of the Industrial Revolution and his wish to see better conditions in these for the poor souls who had to work in them.
Did Chirst come as a boy to the West Country of England in a ship owned by his Uncle Joseph of Arimithea? Who knows? I'd like to think so. It's a nice idea lost in the mists of time? Did he change water into wine at Cana? Again no one is sure. It really doesn't matter as what is important is whether one believes in what he stood for and in his principles and trys to live by them as best as one could.
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Feb 16, 2005 8:03:38 GMT
The chariot of fire refers to the story of Elijah who was materially assumed into Heaven. There are no contemporary accounts from witnesses of suffering mysterious flash burns to the face or having recurrent dreams about colonic irrigation, so we can safely assume that said chariot was of divine rather than Martian origin.
Then again, maybe it was driven by the apostle who betrayed Jesus, in which case it was Judas's Chariot.
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Harmony
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Post by Harmony on Feb 16, 2005 12:57:36 GMT
Have some responses disappeared from this thread?
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Feb 16, 2005 18:01:58 GMT
Yes. They've been abducted by aliens. Either that or folk from the Moray Firth - can't say as I can tell t'difference ;D BTW, the material in www.celticnz.co.nz , while not overtly racist or offensive in tone, is essentially racist in its conclusions. Indigenous EnZedders (the idea runs) obviously couldn't have been smart enough to have come up with all that palaeo-cultural gear by themselves. No, there must have been a team of Scottish civil engineers overseeing everything. That's much less far-fetched than supposing transoceanic transport existed back in those days.
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Post by whistler on Feb 16, 2005 18:46:38 GMT
BTW, the material in www.celticnz.co.nz , while not overtly racist or offensive in tone, is essentially racist in its conclusions. Indigenous EnZedders (the idea runs) obviously couldn't have been smart enough to have come up with all that palaeo-cultural gear by themselves. much less far-fetched than supposing transoceanic transport existed back in those days. Ruff I am not aware of any indigenous New Zealander,." Did 200 tribes of the Waitaha Nation settle in NZ 2,000 years ago, and were they decimated by the Maori 800 years ago, in an eerie foretaste of the Maori massacre of the Moriori in the Chathams? In the early 1990's Doug Sutton, Auckland University archaelogist, suggested that human beings were living in New Zealand millenia before Maori." The debate goes on - To suggest that the sea could not be a highway - you should talk to a polynesian sailor, he can pick up the "roads of the sea just by feel" To try and play the Race card is just silly . which race do you want to talk about....the human race perhaps
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Post by offramp on Feb 17, 2005 5:35:07 GMT
My observation (note the word) is that northern scotland - particularly the Moray Firth - was used for Atlantean colonies, much of the building being underground and still there. The atlantean influence then goes east and south into the Middle East taking their temple mysteries with them. The particular mysteries involved concerned will and governance. There were also several alien breeding projects going on in the area. For example, much later Himmler was very pleased to take over Norway because he considered the genetics were purer - better suited than German genetics for breeding the new race. There are more esoteric projects underway even now in Scotland making a most magnetic place. If you are interested in a more historical approach to what the scots got up to try www.celticnz.co.nz/ I agree with you to an extent but I think that the Scots came from the continent of MUU-MUU, via New Zealand. They travelled either on balsa-wood ships or via the inter-polar channel. The people of MUU-MUU were great swimmers and had an unusually large lung capacity. If I could take out about 4 inches of a Scotsman's lungs I could prove it right now.
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ruffashlar
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Post by ruffashlar on Feb 17, 2005 6:15:47 GMT
Whistler,
The movements of the ancient Polynesians are well-known, their expansion across the entire Pacific remarkable in itself. So why claim this was all done by Scots-Irish chaps instead?
I said it was racist in conclusion, if not in content or even intention. By that, I mean it is effectively prejudicial against the peoples who did historically inhabit an area to argue that their ancient achievements must have been the legacy of a seagoing race of great white teachers from aeons ago.
"We came across the west sea We didn't have much idea of the kind of climate waiting We used our hands for guidance like the children of a preacher Like a dry tree seeking water or a daughter "
-- The Stranglers, Nice and Sleazy
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Post by whistler on Feb 17, 2005 8:59:55 GMT
Ruff, I don't Know about the scottish bit, but the Pacific is not a puddle, and the polynesians were probably from Taiwan, does that make them Chinese, If the Scots had boats why could they not have found the Pacific pond. who knows . I really have no time for race comments.
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Post by taylorsman on Feb 17, 2005 10:53:41 GMT
Moved by Kizzy to Talking Chaff section on grounds of relevance.
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