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Post by whistler on Nov 3, 2004 9:50:10 GMT
Adder to my mind the whole G.D. thing has been handled in an excellant manner, right down to your mention of the Wescot Bible. G.D. was raised as a subject, we discussed its connection to Freemasonry and discovered it appears to have strayed to far away from the craft.. those of us who didn't know now do and we move on to other things.... Thank you for your contribution
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staffs
Administrator
Staffs
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Post by staffs on Nov 3, 2004 18:46:32 GMT
Great Stuff,no need for heavy handed moderating and thats how it should be
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dmp32
New Member
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Post by dmp32 on Nov 3, 2004 22:24:45 GMT
...except for a breakaway branch in the USA, in which the 'A' of SRIA stands not for 'Anglia', but for, if I recall, 'Americas' (I'll have to check and either be corrected or correct myself) Here in the US, we have the MSRICF - they did away with the A... (Masonic Societas Rosicruciana in Civitatibus Foederatis)
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Post by whistler on Nov 3, 2004 22:42:43 GMT
Here in the US, we have the MSRICF - they did away with the A... (Masonic Societas Rosicruciana in Civitatibus Foederatis) Welcome dmp32, Do some peolpe attend both traditional (for want of a better word) Freemasonry and Masonic Societas Rosicruciana in Civitatibus Foederatis) meetings?
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dmp32
New Member
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Post by dmp32 on Nov 4, 2004 0:54:35 GMT
Here, membership in Blue Lodge and/or Scottish Rite or York Rite is a pre-requisite for membership in the MSRICF.
All of our MSFICF members are active in their home lodges.
Now speaking only for myself, I am very active in my Blue Lodge, and Scottish Rite...
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jmd
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fourhares.com
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Post by jmd on Nov 4, 2004 10:22:03 GMT
SRIA, SRIS and MSRICF each have, as a requirement, that the person invited for (or seeking to have) membership be a Master Mason and a Christian.
In terms of the Golden Dawn [GD], though there are quite large differences in their rituals and those of Freemasonry, it should perhaps be remembered that the three founders were each high ranking SRIA members.
In fact, Melbourne's oldest SRIA College (equiv. to a Lodge) has its charter signed by Wescott - at the time the Society's Supreme Magus (equiv. to a GM in the Craft).
With regards to the GD, its grades are taken step by step from those of the SRIA, with the exception of the 0=0 grade, which effectively replaces the Masonic qualification.
Regardie, who published (though they already had been) the GD's rituals, was given his 7=4 by the New Zealand based Zalewskis, who themselves re-established a then defunct GD variant Temple.
It should be pointed out that part of one of the standard oaths of the GD - though dropped in some 'constitutions' - is to not admit nor deny that one is an initiated member, and so it is not in good form to ask of those posting whether they are or not.
Rather, it may be more instructive to ask what it is they may do. Like Masonry, virtually everything there is to be read is already available - save the experience of the initiation, and especially the currents generated in its rituals.
In this thread, I would suggest that what is of greater importance, and totally connected, though quite different, to Freemasonry, are the various Soc. Ros. (SRIA/S/CF).
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Post by Lurkio on Nov 4, 2004 20:22:15 GMT
It should be pointed out that part of one of the standard oaths of the GD - though dropped in some 'constitutions' - is to not admit nor deny that one is an initiated member, and so it is not in good form to ask of those posting whether they are or not. Quite right.Let's have some decorum on the forum!
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 4, 2004 22:36:49 GMT
William Westcott who indeed was a past Supreme Magus of the Society has a college named after him and Staffs, Steve they meet at Brighton. The William Wynn Westcott College. I know they meet on the 1st Sat In Dec and march I am not sure of thier other meeting date.
The GD system is still active in England and indeed is very similar to that of the SRIA as JMD states they only differ on the final degree, the fact is most of the 'higher' SRIA membership know of and are very aware of GD, it is a path that is not followed by most of them.
Once you join the SRIA and start to investigate the esoteric side of masonry a lot of paths open up to you and in following each path you may decide that for instance the GD is not for you and leavre it alone, or it is and join, equally other 'paths' are there for you to follow!
The one thing I can guarantee if you are interested in things esoteric you should join the SRIA. In my opinion joining the Craft opens the door, joining the SRIA turns on the light!
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Post by adder on Nov 5, 2004 2:55:21 GMT
Adder ,you seem to have evaded the question asked by the admin: Well,pardon me while I doff my cap and tug my forelock.
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Post by adder on Nov 5, 2004 3:02:45 GMT
Adder,Thank you for keeping within the parameters of the forum "rules".The last thing we want is antis to jump in on this or give opportunity to others to d**n us so early on. Adder,it is noted you are not on the member list.Is there a reason ?? Your reasons if not wanting to join are respected but if you are having trouble registering please contact me. Your posts are most welcolme in any mode.Please enjoy your stay I was on the member list staffs,I now chose not to be. Sorry mate but I didn't enjoy my stay for long.I really don't think I am the forum type.Bit too thin-skinned you might say.I still wish you all the best with it.
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Post by atarnaris on Nov 5, 2004 18:14:59 GMT
No, adder. But I was informed about that and the previous one which took place more to the south. I am planning to attend the next one. It was only time & money that kept me off...
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Post by zz-Midlander on Nov 5, 2004 23:53:29 GMT
Could I ask a question about the SRIA? Why is it that this order that takes a more than a passing interest in esoteric matters, has a requiement that those who wish to be considered for membership must profess the Christian faith? Does this not limit it's appeal somewhat, by excluding those who have other paths to follow. I'm thinking particularly of say Pagan/ Druid /Wiccan view points. But it could equally apply to Buddhists, Hindus or others. Just curious, thats all Midlander.
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Post by whistler on Nov 5, 2004 23:57:43 GMT
Midlander, It also counts me out.
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jmd
Member
fourhares.com
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Post by jmd on Nov 6, 2004 0:50:58 GMT
I wholeheardedly agree - and there have been moves in the past to alter this requirement - seeking to state instead that though the SRIA is based on Christianity, all are welcome.
The general mood at the moment is the reverse, with greater emphasis that this be ensured from all prospective candidates.
Personally, I would like to see the direction be an affirmation as to what the Society is, but not see it as a requirement for membership. For example, if I participate in an Anglican service, no one comes to ask me if I'm a Christian, but certainly engage expecting a Christian-based service.
Given the contents of the rituals, there is nothing which would preclude a non-Christian from participating, understanding that some of the rituals specifically will be Christ-oriented.
The letter of the law seems to be getting an undeserved place of honour in recent times in a number of areas of life.
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Post by zz-Midlander on Nov 6, 2004 23:09:08 GMT
Midlander, It also counts me out. Alas, Whistler, that is one of the downsides of Co-Masonry - it does cut you off from the 'Regular' side of things. Conversely, Co-masonry does undoubtedly have it's benefits - particularly in it's deeper studies of Ritual and a more formal pattern of Masonic teaching of it's Initiates. HGW Midlander.
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ruffashlar
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Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
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Post by ruffashlar on Nov 7, 2004 3:50:19 GMT
Midlander asked:Why is it that this order that takes a more than a passing interest in esoteric matters, has a requiement that those who wish to be considered for membership must profess the Christian faith?
All religions are essentially one; but from each religion, if it be of sufficient maturity and depth, departs a separate and peculiar path of Initiation. The SRIA, being Rosicrucian in nature, is Christianity's; as Sufism is Islam's, and Kabbalah that proper to Judaism. The Pagan has the witch's or shaman's way. While the Buddhist school of Initiation may be said to be Zen, he is in fact free to take any path. By these distinct paths do all arrive at the knowledge that all tread in truth the one path. That is the most sublime revelation of all.
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Post by whistler on Nov 7, 2004 10:45:53 GMT
Alas, Whistler, that is one of the downsides of Co-Masonry - it does cut you off from the 'Regular' side of things. Conversely, Co-masonry does undoubtedly have it's benefits - particularly in it's deeper studies of Ritual and a more formal pattern of Masonic teaching of it's Initiates. HGW Midlander. Our 18th Degree is the Rose Criox and has the same Christian theme - Haven't joined it yet. still thinking about it- trying to find ways of adding extra days to a week
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Post by Yoki on Nov 8, 2004 7:55:31 GMT
As this topic has moved on this is in response to comments on page one asking for the links between the Golden Drawn and Masonry The Golden Drawn, Theopathy, Co Masonry, were frequented and shall we say stocked with the same people in the ninetieth century .I should imagine there was a exchange or borrowing of ritual and symbolism between these groups and the many other societies that flourished at this time. It’s not a strong link but there is certainly some aspects that are simular to both. ;D
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Nov 8, 2004 9:15:39 GMT
In Co-Freemasonry in New Zealand we have the Bible on our Altar, together with various other Holy Books - the Bhagavad Gita, Koran etc. Being a predominantly christian country we use the Bible, but the other VSL are available should a member of such a faith join. Our teaching and instruction encourages learning from all religious platforms according to the Bro. particular interests. This discussion thread has suggestions that one must be of a particular persuation to join one or other of the side degrees. I belong to the RC and have found no such strict requirement, Indeed all that is required is that we respect and obey the rules and obligations of each degree. Having thus many options to view and partake in a variety of ceremonials greatly increases ones understanding, tolerance and resect for all beleifs, and to my way of thinking can only make us all better masons.
Cheers, Hubert
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Post by taylorsman on Nov 8, 2004 9:47:11 GMT
Hubert I assume yours is the Co-Masonic version of Rose Croix.
In Britain as far as I am aware one has to be a Trinitarian Christian to join Rose Croix, KTs, RCC, ROC, SRIA/SRIS but I beleive that in other Countries it is possible for a Non Christian to be in Rose Croix though I cannot speak for the other Degrees in those circumstances. Conversely, to be a only a Craft Freemason in Scandinavia it is necessary to be a Christian, never mind the overtly Christian Degrees mentioned.
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