|
Post by maat on Aug 15, 2005 0:32:04 GMT
Here is a wonderful site for anyone who wishes to know more about Kabbala ... www.borndigital.com/tree/esa/treedex.htmFirst click on the Overview and then make sure you click the top left hand area to bring up the Tree of Life. This is a truly excellent INTERACTIVE site...and will lead you by paths you may not have known. There is a picnic of Freemasonic symbolism here ... not esoteric but curious? This is for you too.. Enjoy Maat
|
|
|
Post by maat on Aug 15, 2005 4:01:10 GMT
For beginners - you may do well to start your voyage of discovery on the Tree of Life with the Sepher Malchut (the World at the bottom). Then work you way up.
|
|
jmd
Member
fourhares.com
Posts: 1,081
|
Post by jmd on Aug 15, 2005 11:35:27 GMT
Personally, I would not recommend this site for beginners, and that for a very simple reason: it promotes the Golden Dawn variant as though foundational to the Occidental Esoteric tradition.
Also, the correlations made by the Golden Dawn (and its variant derivatives) basically assume the very structure of the Tree of Life as presented here - basically the Kircher version.
Unless one is into more Golden Dawn oriented overlays, I would personally primarily suggest A. Kaplan's Sefer Yetzirah and Bahir. Not only are these foundational texts in their own right, but Kaplan's commentary and discussion provides a firm foundation from which to build a depth of understanding, and by which to then discern what may be useful or otherwise of the GD's offerings with regards to the Kabalah.
|
|
|
Post by maat on Aug 15, 2005 23:57:25 GMT
JMD - I don't know enough to comment on all the above. I swing in and out of the Kabbala over the years - but just don't have enough time to 'really study it'. At my level I found it "saved time" if a question cropped up in my mind. I also found it valuable in linking the correspondences of the various disciplines... Freemasonry, Ancient Wisdom, Astrology, Tarot, Jungian Psychology, Huna etc
I am unashamedly esoteric by nature... the girl just can't help it. Have heard of the Golden Dawn but not aware of their philosophy.
I really enjoyed reading your piece on The Square last night - especially the Gallows bit. May I share portions of it with Brn at my Lodge?
Cheers Maat
|
|
jmd
Member
fourhares.com
Posts: 1,081
|
Post by jmd on Aug 16, 2005 7:23:23 GMT
You are welcome to use any portions of my small paper you find useful in any manner you like - and am glad to see you enjoyed reading it. Possibly the best way, I would suggest, is simply to take an idea that you find inspiring and transform it to something of your own (after all, that is, in the end, all I did: the letters of the Greek I simply took as given, as I too did the form of the letter 'G', and simply reflected on the various meanings of 'G' in its Hebrew, its Greek, its Roman, and its geometrical forms). With regards to the site given above and its correlations, it may be worth pointing to a couple of discrepancies between it (the GD variant) and other orders such as the Kabbalistic Order of the Rose Cross (and yet others). For example, the most obvious difference is that whereas the latter links Hebrew two ( Bet) with card II of the Atouts (Major Arcana) of the Tarot, the GD connects it with card one - this discrepancy is 'justified' by the GD by adding a zero to the un-numbered card (the Fool), and attributing it the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet. Further, it may also be pointed out that there are various versions of letter attributions upon the so-called 'paths' that link the various emanations ( Sefirot). In one version (not the GD's), the three mother letters (A, M, Sh) are placed on three horizontal paths, the double letters (double because they have a fricative and a plosive sound as, for eg, Bet as 'B' and 'vvvv') on verticals, and single letters (the twelve others) on diagonals. Also, whereas each planetary correlation to the seven double letters can be explained by early astrological/astronomical understanding, the GD further alters these to suit its preferred kind of correlations with what it sees in the cards (and further, actually switches Justice and Strength due to their personal zodiacal preferences from earlier established, though not universal, ordering). I suppose that I personally find it increasingly surprising how much of the GD attributions are being presented as though they are central to the Western esoteric tradition, especially given the amount of literature around that now presents the basis from which Mathers and Wescott (and other GD members) made their own preferred alterations. Of course much of it is appealing, and much of it also has an internal consistency that seems to justify various correlations made. The 'system', however, appears to mix-and-match things that perhaps either have a different fit, or no direct correlation. One can, of course, wear underwear for a hat, and the sleeves of a shirt as trouser legs - but if one does, I would also suggest that the apparent fit be looked at and a discernment be made as to whether or not certain alterations made to make the whole thing work is being made to 'fit', rather than things working because they intrinsically belong together. Contra many others interested in similar fields of study and work, I tend to view the GD-type attributions as somewhat forced correlations that do not intrinsically belong together. Being based in South Australia, you may at some stage come across the wonderful Millenium Tarot deck designed there in the early 1980s by a couple of women that appear to perhaps have been co-Masons (Ziba Vilmanis-Westenberg & M. S. Chamberlain).
|
|
|
Post by hollandr on Aug 16, 2005 22:50:17 GMT
Jmd
I consider that the qabalah underlies Masonic Science. But it is rarely taught in our lodges and even more rarely is it taught as a practical science rather than a speculative art.
I do not know how our brethren are expected to progress in the science without being taught practical qabalah.
In its absence we are left with an osmotic process that may or may not proceed at a discernable pace.
Cheers
Russell
|
|
ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
|
Post by ruffashlar on Aug 17, 2005 22:54:20 GMT
Maat,
"I am unashamedly esoteric by nature... the girl just can't help it. Have heard of the Golden Dawn but not aware of their philosophy."
Frankly, I'm shocked. What are they teaching kids in schools these days? When I was a lad, I had my head stuck in Regardie's The Golden Dawn, rotting my brain with all that esotericism, before I even knew what the bit behind the bikesheds was for. Sex and drugs and Rock and Roll and the Golden Dawn system of Magic are what made [insert name of country] great, and if I had my way they would be be freely available on the NHS, along with Wireless Broadband Connection and milk in little polygonal tetrapaks. Yay!
|
|
|
Post by maat on Aug 18, 2005 0:09:59 GMT
I'm a Rock n Roller too... Not that often these days - but can still manage to work up a 'glow' when the music is good. Have you noticed that there is not much rock n roll at Lodge social functions? I have an extensive library and I know I did rescue some books on the Golden Dawn from the 2nd hand bookstores - but I just don't seem to get around to reading them. I always seem to have something 'more interesting' on the go. While we are on the subject of books - over the years I have found that I have 'the experience' first - and then the book or resource which explains it just comes my way. Once a book actually fell off a high shelf at my feet - and there was no one else around...spooked me a bit at the time. I also found that in Lodge - when memorising a particular piece - something would happen that would call on the wisdom or quality that the piece was expounding. Very interesting. Over the years I have concluded that we are accompanied by 'Deacons' wherever we are. Cheers Maat
|
|
ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
|
Post by ruffashlar on Aug 20, 2005 22:54:10 GMT
Unless, like me, they're always running around the carpet looking for their wands.
Actually, if you were to go to Lodge dances in my neck-of-the-woods, you might be surprised at how much Rock-'n'-Roll they do play. And not just on the karaoke, either; although I still pride myself that my rendition of Two Pints of Lager and a Packet of Crisps (in full Highland dress while swigging a bottle of Buckfast) has never been surpassed.
|
|
|
Post by hollandr on Aug 21, 2005 0:52:23 GMT
>I did rescue some books on the Golden Dawn from the 2nd hand bookstores - but I just don't seem to get around to reading them.
Maat
You are correct in that observation. From discussion with an esoteric bookseller, the interest in GD largely dried up about 10 or 15 years ago.
It is likely that energy is being withdrawn from many external (physical) rituals. This presumably is to clear the ground for a new impulse across fraternal and religious organisations.
I suspect that the new impulse will require inner as well as outer rituals. As indeed was explicit in the early GD workings but which did not generally survive past the first generation.
And the Angel of the New World Religion is at hand and looking for handmaidens and footmen to co-develop the multiple forms suitable for the many cultures and temperaments of those present in human form at this time.
Cheers
Russell
|
|
ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
|
Post by ruffashlar on Aug 21, 2005 1:07:32 GMT
Is it not a simpler and more likely, if admittedly blander, truth that interest in the Golden dawn dried up among those interested in recondite subjects because the G.D. started to enter common awareness. It started to be a subject earnestly discussed by Undergaduates as a prelude to casual sex. Ergo, some people got to be PMs on the subject.
No doubt the day attractive co-eds start opening conversations with HEKAS HEKAS ESTE BEBELOI, Doctor Dee will get dumped in the half-priced bin of the Esoteric bargain basement.
|
|
|
Post by hollandr on Aug 21, 2005 1:56:00 GMT
Ruff
Simpler and blander no doubt.
But I was speaking from personal observation
Cheers
Russell
|
|
|
Post by a on Aug 21, 2005 9:13:50 GMT
Perhaps the energy is not being withdrawn as such, it is just not being recognised? And hence not utilised. And where it is recognised it illuminates.
Indeed for ultimately you do have to know yourself. All answers to the key (meaning of life type) questions lie within. Outer rituals are valuable, but humanity has perhaps proven itself to be unable to use ritual in proper context. Egos can be powerful things. This is one reason why inner work is being performed increasingly around our world, even though I suspect that many have no idea that they are doing it. When the organisations that do the outer work fully realise this they could tap into an enormous resource, assuming that Egos don't prevail. If they can't then they may simply become a curiosity as opposed to leaders.
New World, Old World. The Circles of life. It is fascinating watching this circle complete.
|
|
|
Post by morgandrake on Dec 27, 2005 5:06:36 GMT
As someone who was involved a few years ago when one of the local GD lodges closed, part of the lack of interest in GD happens to be because a lot of spiritual seekers wanted an easier path to walk than what GD was offering. Between that and the war between the various Orders to be the sole GD Order, a lot of energy has left for greener pastures. There seems to be some new growth in GD, but not much.
|
|
|
Post by corab on Dec 27, 2005 12:07:22 GMT
As someone who was involved a few years ago when one of the local GD lodges closed, part of the lack of interest in GD happens to be because a lot of spiritual seekers wanted an easier path to walk than what GD was offering. Between that and the war between the various Orders to be the sole GD Order, a lot of energy has left for greener pastures. There seems to be some new growth in GD, but not much. I think there's a lot of truth in that. In the Pagan scene we see a fair bit of interest in the GD, but as soon as study groups are set up people realise exactly how much work is required to to walk the path, and they give up. Same in Wicca - you get wannabe teen-witches by the bus load, but once they realise they don't just get to twitch their nose and have all their hearts desire but actually have to work damn hard about their Selves they 'magically' disappear in a puff of pink air! Problem with GD is also that Lodges are few and far between, and the neophyte is largely left to work with the Cicero's Guide to Self-Initiation - a hefty tome with a truly fascinating curriculum, but I myself have still to bring myself to chant out loud without feeling an utter eejit! *G* Still - it's a very valuable reference book. Back on topic - I find the Born Digital site a wonderful tool but would say that it would be better to approach the Kabbalah at its origin first and then, if so desired, look at its various offshoots (Cabala and Qabalah - the spellings do indicate the 'flavour', Cabala being Christian and Qabalah being Western Mysteries/GD). A lot of Pagans seem to have a problem with the Judaic Kabbalah because it's so closely related to a religion they are taught to revile - Christianity. I'm probably going to get flak for that remark from some corner or other, but from my experience in the Pagan scene Christian bashing is the done thing - based on the myth of the "Burning Times". As a consequence they go straight into the Qabalah without once considering its origins, and so they never gain a true understanding of what it is they think they practice. Qabalah was important in my coven - yet I never got to understand it until I left and started from scratch: the Kabbalah. Guess they should've seen it coming when I equated Hod to Eve's Temptation, actually - the Dawn of Consciousness*G* Cora
|
|
|
Post by rockytriton on Jan 31, 2006 14:29:11 GMT
I wonder if people ever try to associate this Kabbalah with the "one world religion" that the anitchrist is supposed to form. Not saying I believe any of that, but it just seems like that would be a pretty common accusation for this.
|
|
|
Post by a on Jan 31, 2006 15:11:53 GMT
rockytriton
Could I suggest that there already is a one world religion. It is just that man has fractured it. Consider the various religions in the world. All different, yet conceptually, when you boil it all down, also very similar - they largely comprise a belief in god, however termed. Now exactly which god you are talking about is a separate issue. As are the methods adopted to find your way back to god however defined. But when you boil it all down there is a spring from which everything came, and that everything includes the various religions of man.
So could I further offer the opinion, that the antichrist whoever he or she may be, does not need to hearld in a one world religion, for it already exists. It is just that man needs to learn that ego's need to be mastered and that there are many paths to the mansion, all equally valid.
So the interesting thing here is that for a one world religion to be realised in the current time, the attributes of tolerance, love, helping others find their way, seeking the truth and mastering of ones ego, by everyone, would be a pre-requisite. Yet such a one world religion would encompass all current religions working together in harmony.
(and yes I do see the funny side of this ego comment).
Just some thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Jan 31, 2006 16:49:04 GMT
I'm not sure what you mean exactly, or where you want to go with this, but I do believe that something did go wrong a long time ago. I wonder if people ever try to associate this Kabbalah with the "one world religion" that the anitchrist is supposed to form. Not saying I believe any of that, but it just seems like that would be a pretty common accusation for this. It has been written that Christian Rosenkreutz returned to Europe from Arabia, and it looks as if he was shunned by the learned of the time (?). The following is from the Fama Fraternitatis (1614): ..."But it was to them a laughing matter; and being a new thing unto them, they feared that their great name would be lessened, if they should now again begin to learn and acknowledge their many years' errors, to which they were accustomed, and wherewith with they had gained them enough. Who so loveth unquietness, let him be reformed (they said). ..." "After two years Brother R.C.. departed the city of Fez, and sailed with many costly things into Spain, hoping well as he himself had so well and so profitably spent his time in his travel, that the learned in Europe would highly rejoice with him, and begin to rule and order all their studies according to those sure and sound foundations. He therefore conferred with the learned in Spain, shewing unto them the errors of our arts, and how they might be corrected, and from whence they should gather the true Inditia of the times to come, and wherein they ought to agree with those things that are past; also how the faults of the Church and the whole Philosophia Moralis were to be amended. He shewed them new growths, new fruits, and beasts, which did concord with old philosophy, and prescribed them new Axiomata, whereby all things might fully be restored. But it was to them a laughing matter; and being a new thing unto them, they feared that their great name would be lessened, if they should now again begin to learn and acknowledge their many years' errors, to which they were accustomed, and wherewith with they had gained them enough. Who so loveth unquietness, let him be reformed (they said). The same song was also sung to him by other Nations, the which moved him the more because it happened to him contrary to his expectation, being then ready bountifully to impart all his arts and secrets to the learned, if they would have but undertaken to write the true and infallible Axiomata, out of all faculties, sciences, and arts, and whole Nature, as that which he knew would direct them, like a globe or circle, to the onely middle point and centrum, and (as is usual among the Arabians) it should only serve to the wise and learned for a rule, that also there might be a society in Europe, which might have gold, silver, and precious stones, sufficient for to bestow them on kings, for their necessary uses and lawful purposes, with which [society] such as be governors might be brought up for to learn all that which God hath suffered man to know, and thereby to he enabled in all times of need to give their counsel unto those that seek it, like the Heathen Oracles. " Question: Was the wisdom that Brother R.C. had collected in Arabia turned down by the learned of Europe upon his return, and if so, why? My personal belief is that the knowledge of the Arabic countries was shunned by the Europeans because the Hebrew alphabet and the Kabbalah, religion etc., had already become firmly established in Europe. Ask anyone about the Arabic wisdom, initiation etc., from the east, gematria etc., and you will have difficulty getting information. I'm not so sure that it could be called the Arabic 'Kabbalah' but the knowledge was known then and still exists. To protect knowledge it was seperated, thus giving the cultures one of two options i.e., preservation through peace or preservation through war. Regards, Sid
|
|
|
Post by jason on Apr 27, 2006 8:21:56 GMT
For beginers I reccomend Dion Fortune. Then you can move on to some other authors with a firm base.
|
|
ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
|
Post by ruffashlar on Apr 28, 2006 4:57:21 GMT
Oh I don't know. From what I hear, Dion Fortune had quite a firm base of her own.
Does my base look big in this?
|
|