giovanni
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odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
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Post by giovanni on May 20, 2007 18:53:03 GMT
IMHO, it depends on the perspective man sees the matter.
Darkness can be considered as either the start of a new phase or a metaphorical status of separation and thus of solitude, desperation. Both the hypotheses are valid, it's up to us to choose the fittest one.
Much depends on the circumstances. The initiatory path has no certainties, we are therefore like those sailors who adjust their rudder in accordance to the wind.
Our rudder is our conscience.
P. S. = It is clear that many things are relative. If we are longing for for an absolute guidance we ought to refer to the Golden Rule, IMHO.
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Post by penfold on May 20, 2007 19:37:33 GMT
The Golden Rule? he who has the gold, makes the rules, yes?
theron, the closest I could theorise in respect of karen's thoughts was the 23rd psalm, we walk in the shadow and the light.....the middle path between good and evil
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giovanni
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odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
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Post by giovanni on May 20, 2007 20:10:56 GMT
I am not Theron.
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Post by todddrew on May 20, 2007 22:36:43 GMT
Thank you Dear Sister for the warm welcome.
Concider this, In the allagory of Adam and Eve. What was the the one tree they were not to eat the fruit of?
What happened when they ate of the tree?
namaste' -td
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Tamrin
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Nosce te ipsum
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Post by Tamrin on May 20, 2007 22:46:01 GMT
Thank you Dear Sister for the warm welcome. Concider this, In the allagory of Adam and Eve. What was the the one tree they were not to eat the fruit of? What happened when they ate of the tree? namaste' -td They became like the gods (Genesis 3:22)
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Post by todddrew on May 20, 2007 22:49:39 GMT
yes, but what was the "Knowledge" they recieved?
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Post by hollandr on May 21, 2007 2:24:06 GMT
>what was the "Knowledge" they received?
Hello Todd
A good question and here is another:
How is it the knowledge was achieved through eating?
Is this a case of transfer of genetic material through food or food that switches on existing genes?
Cheers
Russell
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Post by maat on May 21, 2007 4:09:04 GMT
Excellent thought Karen and excellent response Todd.
Made me think THATS IT!
Maat (I join Karen in welcoming you most heartily to MFoL, Todd. You good works precede you!)
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on May 21, 2007 4:36:17 GMT
yes, but what was the "Knowledge" they recieved? Knowledge of good and evil. (little smile) And Genesis 2:9 says this tree was in the *middle* of the garden. There was, likewise, another tree there, that of life. You can find these trees in many other traditions as well. There's the tree, guarded by a serpent, mentioned in Sumerian sources. Then there's the Garden of the Hesperides, with its own serpent (Ladon), in Greek mythology. In Buddhism, Siddhartha attained enlightenment under the Bodhi tree. In Hinduism, the Tree of Jiva and Atman is soul, mind, and body. For the Norse, it's Yggdrasil, which is fed upon the waters of knowledge. However, I really *was* talking about that middle way. Which could be a tree but . . . Y'see, it usually comes in threes. Where you see three of anything in these studies, you have two extremes and the middle between them. The middle transcends the extremes. In Freemasonry, there are many threes and I think that is no accident. My fave (and, to this thread, I think the most relevant) is the three p*llars: W*sdom, Str*nght and B*uty. What I've not yet decided is which is the middle way. I suspect it's B*uty. I certainly am open to instruction there. Todddrew, I'm liking you. I hope you hang out lots and lots ;D
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on May 21, 2007 4:47:46 GMT
The Golden Rule? he who has the gold, makes the rules, yes? Oh, but you're baaaaaaaaaaaad (broad smile)
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Post by hollandr on May 21, 2007 5:07:36 GMT
Light and darkness physically interact to produce the 2 rainbows identified by Goethe. One has 7 colours and the other 5. This is easily observed with a prism. Goethe himself gave about 120 experiments.
And since we know: As above so below
What then is the spiritual correspondence of the interaction of light and darkness to produce colour?
this may relate to Karens' middle path
(Not that the light-dark dichotomy is the same as good-evil dichotomy, but there may be some learnings with broad application)
Cheers
Russell
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Post by middlepillar on May 21, 2007 7:36:34 GMT
In Freemasonry, there are many threes and I think that is no accident. My fave (and, to this thread, I think the most relevant) is the three p*llars: W*sdom, Str*nght and B*uty. What I've not yet decided is which is the middle way. I suspect it's B*uty. I certainly am open to instruction there. K The three together is the importance, the middle way is the path but without the other two? Put the three together and you end up with truth, and that is the aim of all! Is it not? ;D
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Post by therondunn on May 21, 2007 11:53:23 GMT
If you can't explain it, say so. Piling it higher and deeper to avoid a discussion of why a man would possibly seek a path BETWEEN good and bad is not an answer. To seek a middle path, one has to embrace bad, to an extent. Freemasons are taught to seek the light, to embrace and seek the good, to be better men.
What you seem to be proclaiming here is that good is not necessary, and that the middle, the average, the OK, the middling is satisfactory. Truth has nothing to do with evil, it stands alone as a product of facts.
I am not trying to play stupid here, but it seems a simple question deserves a simple straightforward answer, and since I can't GET one, there isn't one. The thesis, being therefore not defended, should, I guess, be set aside.
For myself then, I will seek the good, and eschew the bad, since THAT is what freemasonry teaches me to do. To seek the middle means accepting the bad, else a middle path is impossible. I cannot accept bad in my life, because that which I accept, I own.
If I see evil (bad) and do nothing to change it, I am bad. I therefore reject bad and seek good.
Not trying to convince anyone of anything, but I have asked and asked for a straight answer, so I feel you deserve a straight one from me.
Thanks my brothers.
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Post by todddrew on May 21, 2007 12:30:57 GMT
The lips of wisdom are closed except to the ears of the understanding. -The Kybalion
namaste'-td
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Post by naphesh on May 21, 2007 14:12:10 GMT
The lips of wisdom are closed except to the ears of the understanding. -The Kybalion namaste'-td A very true quote, but not very helpful is it? Theron Dunn You seem to be asking for categorical proof, why? In all aspects of life we make a judgement call. You believe in God, why? where is the proof? You on another thread are suggesting people are bullying you because they cannot explain themselves fully! I have yet to meet a Priest who can give me unquestionable proof of the existence of God, but I believe. Take a chill pill and start thinking laterally, you have been given the tools brother, do you think they are simply for looking at?
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Post by todddrew on May 21, 2007 14:28:36 GMT
>A very true quote, but not very helpful is it?< Yes and no namaste' -td
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 21, 2007 16:20:43 GMT
I think there is some confusion between center and middle, so here is my thought.
Karen and Theron, you are both right, at least IMHO.
The center, to which Karen alludes, is the metaphysical one, that point from which no master mason cannot err. It is symbol of the One. Any man should strive to reach it, and in this I do agree with Theron completely.
The "middle" way is the manner by which man should advance. In more simple words, the center, the good, the light is the strategy, the goal; the middle is instead the tactics.
I give you an example. When some catholic missionaries went to Africa, they were appalled seeing women going around with naked chest (bad).
They then asked women to dress up (good). So doing, they aroused the sexuality (worse), so they decided to let women take the Communion without hold-chest (middle).
My granddad used to say that sometimes the "better" is enemy of the "good". I realized he was right some years later.
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Post by todddrew on May 21, 2007 17:21:23 GMT
Hello Brother Giovanni,
It is good to see you here.
So if I may further simplify what you are saying, There is a Good that transcends the good that is merely the polar opposite of bad?
Brother Russell,
I have not overlooked the question you posed earlier. It has given me much to contemplate. Someone once told me that the word "Genesis" when broken down can be read as Genes-of Isis.
namaste' -td
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giovanni
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Post by giovanni on May 21, 2007 17:55:32 GMT
Hello Brother Giovanni, It is good to see you here. So if I may further simplify what you are saying, There is a Good that transcends the good that is merely the polar opposite of bad? namaste' -td In the One, at mephysical level, there is neither good nor evil. They are 2 categories of the Manifestation. In the One there cannot be multiplicity which is actually absorbed within it.
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imakegarb
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Post by imakegarb on May 21, 2007 18:15:23 GMT
The three together is the importance, the middle way is the path but without the other two? Put the three together and you end up with truth, and that is the aim of all! Is it not? ;D Yup, Bro. MP. Which is why I explained, earlier, that moving between good and evil is no compromise, that I believe the middle way transcends both. Bro. Theron, as to my not being able to explain . . . lovingly, fraternally and with all due respect, I *can* explain it. And I have. Repeatedly. What I seem to be unable to do is explain it in such way as you are able to understand it. "Make" and "Force" are repugnant to me and so I will not attempt to compel your understanding. That others here are understanding me is what lead me to suggest, to you that, if you are **truly** interested in understanding, you will need to find a better teacher than me. I maintain that does not, at all, imply any disability on my part. It does suggest that this way is closed to you.
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