jmd
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Post by jmd on Oct 24, 2007 8:02:05 GMT
Actually, I know of two groups that meet in Melbourne - one that's been going for about 50 years, and the other only recently set up (I was formerly a member of the older one, and was invited, but declined, to be part of the foundation group of the one ricardo mentions).
The former has a long line of descent to De Pasqually and is 'under' AMORC, the other via a different line via Waite.
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Post by middlepillar on Oct 25, 2007 20:00:15 GMT
Negredo
You asked a question Brother, but have not responded.
Are you a Martinist? If you are which branch do you belong to?
Why did you ask?
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Post by sid on Oct 25, 2007 22:53:45 GMT
Negredo You asked a question Brother, but have not responded. Are you a Martinist? If you are which branch do you belong to? Why did you ask? I was a member of the TMO and was initiated into the Order in Germany and in London. I also helped to set up the first Heptad in our Lodge (AMORC) here in Germany and was inner/outer Guardian of the Heptad. Martinism is well worth looking into if you feel drawn to it.
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Post by fortitude on Nov 2, 2007 18:21:46 GMT
Brother Sid, If you looked at the link that was provided to you then you would see it says on the home page there: "The Martinist Order of Unknown Philosophers has a large and ever growing circle of Lodges in England, Germany, France, Romania, Greece, South America, Central America, The Greater Antilles and the United States, which welcome all men and women who seek both the mystical path of Saint-Martin, and also the theurgic path of his original master, Martinez de Pasqually." Thanks for the link. Any group that I can contact here in Germany. I'm interested in group/ritual work. Any group that does not require Masonic membership or that I be a Master Mason to join. Any Martinist groups active in Germany? I would like to know a little more about the Elus Cohen if possible. Thanks.
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Post by sid on Nov 2, 2007 22:03:26 GMT
Brother Sid, If you looked at the link that was provided to you then you would see it says on the home page there: "The Martinist Order of Unknown Philosophers has a large and ever growing circle of Lodges in England, Germany, France, Romania, Greece, South America, Central America, The Greater Antilles and the United States, which welcome all men and women who seek both the mystical path of Saint-Martin, and also the theurgic path of his original master, Martinez de Pasqually." Thanks for the link. Any group that I can contact here in Germany. I'm interested in group/ritual work. Any group that does not require Masonic membership or that I be a Master Mason to join. Any Martinist groups active in Germany? I would like to know a little more about the Elus Cohen if possible. Thanks. I missed that, thanks. PS: just found this: Contemporary Martinism and its true origins www.moup.org/Files/Contemporary_Martinism-Ambelain.pdf
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Post by mrmason on Nov 5, 2007 12:46:02 GMT
Hi Chris, Not sure if I've asked this question before!!!
How does the UGLE stand with regards the HOM?
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 5, 2007 23:55:43 GMT
Hi Bob
As far as I know UGLE has no view on HOM, it treats it the same as anything else that is loosely attached.
ie; Scarlet Cord is attached through OSM, Thomas of Acon is attached through KT, HOM is attached through SRIA.
UGLE is distinctly uninterested in anything other than the 3 Degrees and Chapter.
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jmd
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Post by jmd on Nov 6, 2007 0:27:26 GMT
HOM is not attached through the SRIA (I sincerely hope this is still so - I personally would not want for the SRIA such attachment), but rather through SRIA members - a little like the GD was, yet totally distinct, and not requiring SRIA membership to join.
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 6, 2007 0:38:01 GMT
JMD you are quite correct in the first part HOM is made up of members of SRIA, The SRIA has no governing power over HOM. (Although I did state loosely!)
However to become a member of HOM you must be a member of SRIA, I am only speaking of HOM not other Martinist Orders like MONZ or MOUP.
HOM was chartered specifically to receive members from The SRIA and its sister organisation(SRIS) It is in my book of Constituions. It is therefore the only Martinist Order (To my knowledge) that does not admit women. I was not around when the Charter and Constitutions were written so I am not to blame!!!!
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jmd
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Post by jmd on Nov 6, 2007 5:36:26 GMT
Thank you for this information, middlepillar. I was not aware that HOM membership was restricted to members of the SRIA (and its 'sister' Societies). Seems like a strange requirement from my perspective, taking especially into consideration Martinism per se and the writings of its founders - but of course stand corrected in my assumption that this would not be the case (so thanks again).
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Post by matt on Nov 22, 2007 19:26:43 GMT
Thank you for this information, middlepillar. I was not aware that HOM membership was restricted to members of the SRIA (and its 'sister' Societies). Seems like a strange requirement from my perspective, taking especially into consideration Martinism per se and the writings of its founders - but of course stand corrected in my assumption that this would not be the case (so thanks again). According to Ambelain, when Pasqually first began to form his lodges he decided to use a masonic lodge. The masonic background and the hopefully similar concepts Master Masons had built allowed a framework upon which he could expand. With that in mind, I dont find it too strange for an order to require membership to SRIA or any other masonic body.
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jmd
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Post by jmd on Nov 23, 2007 2:13:18 GMT
Of course any group or order may build its own pre-requisites for membership. What is strange is that an order that claims to be specifically Martinist has an SRIA requirement. Even if it were correct that Pasqually drew exclusively from Master Masons (which I realise you did not write) for the purposes of establishing a Martinist group, this is different to using a Masonic Lodge from which to build Martinism.
I would still think that SRIA as a pre-requisite has naught to do with Martinism - except on a far looser understanding that both are based on a Christian basis.
For SRIA, the other concern I have in relation to this development is the impact of specifically Martinist thought (or its form as developed in the HOM, to which I shall choose to remain unaffiliated even if a local branch develops) on the organisation and views of its higher members. I would certainly find it a failing if as a consequence of this SRIA higher grades were somehow considered to be better awarded to those who happen to also be in a Martinist organisation.
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 23, 2007 16:37:18 GMT
At the time of the formation of HOM (1984) The largest martinist order in England was OMS (Ordre Martiniste Syncronique) Louis Bentine (I hope this is spelt correctly!) was the Grand Master. After a lot of discussin it was agreed OMS would issue a Charter to HOM with the specefic requirement of being open to Freemasons who belong to a regular Masonic Body recognised by UGLE. The reason for this was simple, OMS was the larger Order and wished to remain so, at the time it was harder for a UGLE Masons to join an esoteric group like the Martinists without incurring censure, so by forming HOM it enabled Masons to join freely and enabled OMS to continue to get its membership from the general public.
Once HOM was formed it was The Grand Council who changed the By laws/Constitutions so that you had to be a member of SRIA.
The main reason for this was simply to have a filtration system, to find candidates who were prepared to study, and do the work required of Martinism. Something which The SRIA certainly does.
I have to say as a member of both, Martinism is very different from SRIA Rosicrucianism and is actively encouraged to remain so. I would also say that there is no reward in the SRIA infrastucture for being a Martinist and I hope there never will be. (It would go totally against not only Martinism but Rosicrucianism as well!).
HOM is uniquely different in The Martinst World, however it has a strong line back to Papus, its ritual is as good as if not better than others I have witnessed, and encourages everyone of its members in the traditions of the 3 Grand Masters. And if people know and appreciate this there should not be any worry over its close association with Freemasonry.
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Post by rjpowell on Nov 27, 2007 20:39:36 GMT
JMD you are quite correct in the first part HOM is made up of members of SRIA, The SRIA has no governing power over HOM. (Although I did state loosely!) However to become a member of HOM you must be a member of SRIA, I am only speaking of HOM not other Martinist Orders like MONZ or MOUP. HOM was chartered specifically to receive members from The SRIA and its sister organisation(SRIS) It is in my book of Constituions. It is therefore the only Martinist Order (To my knowledge) that does not admit women. I was not around when the Charter and Constitutions were written so I am not to blame!!!! I would like to see this organization in America. Is there any possibility of this happening? Rick
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 27, 2007 20:59:10 GMT
Richard The one Martinist organisation that I know is strong and getting stronger in The US is MOUP. MOUP is in Concordat with HOM so even if members of HOM wanted to branch out in the US they wouldnt they would only go through MOUP. MONZ (Martinist Order of New Zealand) was created jointly by HOM and MOUP but niether had a presence in New Zealand at the time, I do not know how one would get the authority to open a Martinist Unit attached to Freemasonry in The US. The only possible way (In theory) would be to come over to the UK and make enquiries about being granted a Charter to work the order in the US. I would recommend you contact MOUP through thier web-site I know they would be pleased to give you details; www.moup.org/I must reiterate MOUP is a Martinist Organisation and like all others (with the exception of HOM) permit women members
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Post by rjpowell on Dec 4, 2007 20:44:52 GMT
Richard The one Martinist organisation that I know is strong and getting stronger in The US is MOUP. MOUP is in Concordat with HOM so even if members of HOM wanted to branch out in the US they wouldnt they would only go through MOUP. MONZ (Martinist Order of New Zealand) was created jointly by HOM and MOUP but niether had a presence in New Zealand at the time, I do not know how one would get the authority to open a Martinist Unit attached to Freemasonry in The US. The only possible way (In theory) would be to come over to the UK and make enquiries about being granted a Charter to work the order in the US. I would recommend you contact MOUP through thier web-site I know they would be pleased to give you details; www.moup.org/I must reiterate MOUP is a Martinist Organisation and like all others (with the exception of HOM) permit women members Cool - thanks.
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parsifal
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Post by parsifal on Dec 5, 2011 4:25:11 GMT
Sorry to revamp this old topic, but it is the one that I originally found and ended up registering on this board.
From my understanding the only reason HOM was created in the first place was as a consequence of the lease on SRIA's Hampstead HQ which stated/states that only members of SRIA can use the building
HOM does not admit women, an anomaly created by the Masonic membership requirement. HOM was originally Chartered by Sar Gulion the Britannic GM of OM&S and who ultimately was the source of most anglophone Martinism.
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