bod
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Post by bod on Nov 9, 2004 17:05:47 GMT
Reading through someone's 'masonic cv' the other day there was an entry that stated the following: ...He is also a member of 13 other masonic degrees that he is unable to name'
Elsewhere I had seen people mention degrees that they weren't allowed to name, and was wondering; How do you find out about them if you can't name them? Why are they so secretive? How many of these 'un-0named' masonic orders are there?
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Nov 9, 2004 18:53:36 GMT
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bod
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Post by bod on Nov 9, 2004 19:25:57 GMT
I think it is a bit more than that tho' Staffs. On another place a well respected poster mentioned that he was in orders that he could not name. I imagine it is similar to the restriction that a member of the GD would be subject to.
From the list n the internet lodge page, this chap who's cv I refer to, would have been able to tick the majority of those listed, he also mentioned the '13 other masonic orders he was not allowed to name'
Perhaps it's a bit of a forlorn hope, expecting someone to know of them, unless they are in them, and then they can't name them - etc etc. Ad infinitum, ad nauseum
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Post by Jumile on Nov 9, 2004 19:26:45 GMT
I think staffs' summation of it is right.
But wasn't there a time when these side orders were not revealed to Masons except when a member of one of these orders wished to invite that Mason into the order? Related the "I am now permitted to inform you..." bit in the Craft?
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Nov 9, 2004 20:44:06 GMT
It really annoys me when people think secrets are things such as these.the only obligations we are sworn toi are not to disclose the passgrips or passwords.It is secrecy or non disclosure such as this that gives freemasonry a bad name .
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Post by taylorsman on Nov 9, 2004 21:22:51 GMT
I agree. I do not hide the fact that I am On the Square or those Orders and Degrees I am in.
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Nov 9, 2004 21:33:05 GMT
So Steve can you tell us what those other orders that arent on the link are or do they not exist or is it a secret
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Nov 10, 2004 8:33:14 GMT
Surely the existance of any Masonic degree would be available to all Masons. Names of such would mean nothing to Cowans, nor would they know how to access them. My masonic upbringing has taught me to be respectful and have trust in my fellow Brn. Thus I could let it be known of my interest in one or other workings and presumably be invited to those that require invitation, and make application to those that accept applications.
In Co-masonry there are several of each type and we advise all our members of the appropriate requisites. We even instill in newer Brn. the obligation of NOT embarising one another by the asking of details restricted to those degrees if not a member.
Cheers, Hubert
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Post by taylorsman on Nov 10, 2004 11:39:01 GMT
Sure Staffs,
3 Craft Lodges , Brighton Civic (5223), Brixton (1949), Athene (5349)
also a member of :-
Mark, RAM, RA Chapter (2 off), Rose Croix, RCC, R&SM, Allied, OSM, Operatives, Squaremen, KT, KTP, St Thomas of Acon, SRIA, and in 2005 (God Willing) ROS.
You can see why I do NOT list these at the bottom of posts as it would take up as much room as the posting!
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Post by Jumile on Nov 10, 2004 12:31:04 GMT
Holy moly, you're a busy lad. Tell me, has your hob or oven ever been used? (What with all those FBs you must attend). ;D
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Nov 10, 2004 16:02:42 GMT
imagine all those briefcases lined up in the hallway. It would be embarrasing to pick up the wrong one.
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 10, 2004 18:18:00 GMT
Staffs
That link you posted is most impressive! It is certainly the most comprehensive list I have seen printed in Black & White!
I think the Bro who was talking about 13 other degrees might of been slightly exagerating! But only slightly. I would presume he would of been a member of 5 or 6 of those printed and I know of some others that are not printed but they do not add up to 13 although of course I do not know all of the degrees practised.
But for your interest I will name another 2 and confirm in some quarters the Hermetic Order of The Golden Dawn is considered accessible only after becoming involved with the esoteric side of masonry.
Two more I know of (and I am a member of one) are. The order of the Rosy Cross (different from any Degree contaning the words Rose or Cross/Croix) and the Hermetic order of the Elus Kohen.
With respect of secrecy, you must think back to your original entrance in to Freemasonry, where in the Antient Charge you are reminded never to propose anyone into our fraternity unless you have strong reasons to believe they will ultimately reflect honour on your choice.It is similar in these 'Higher Degrees' the members who are already in are ultimately charged to make sure that any candidate for the degree is of the right 'qualification'. I know this is frustrating for keen brethren who want to progress, but we must all keep faith in a procedure/system that has worked reasonably well so far.
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staffs
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Post by staffs on Nov 10, 2004 18:46:04 GMT
Oh lets see if i can juuuust reach that carrot ?
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 10, 2004 20:10:11 GMT
Surely you need a stick to reach it?
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bod
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Post by bod on Nov 10, 2004 23:57:36 GMT
That cv in more detail (I've found the booklet now) Craft, Mark (& RAM), Chapter, United Orders of the Temple and Malta, A & AR, R & SM, RCC, Allied, OSM, RAKTP, ROoS, Operatives, SRIA, AOoL, member of 13 orders of Masonry which may not be named.
The brother in question holds fairly senior and exalted positions in most of the orders he belongs to -which is another feature I've noticed in masonry. Those who are really involved give an awful lot of time and effort to the whole of freemasonry - not just craft.
Middlepillar: an excellent reply to my question, thank you. I suppose another question would be; Do those orders ever worry about recruitment levels?
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Agent J
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Post by Agent J on Nov 11, 2004 7:55:08 GMT
I'm pretty sure I'm right in saying that, of the meagre 2 additional degrees that I'm a member of (excluding Chapter), they both continue to grow at a faster rate than the Craft. Indeed, in Essex, KT is the fastest growing of them all.
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Post by kizzy on Nov 11, 2004 8:13:20 GMT
I think that part of this comes from the famine of Candidates in the 1990s.
Some of those entering the Higher Degrees now were the last of the 1980s intake, but if there is a shortage of Candidates into Craft then there will be a corresponding dearth into the other Degrees.
I am already finding in some of of the Higher Orders I am in that there is an appeal at each Meeting to find suitably qualified Candidates and as Subs are generally lower and they meet less often than Craft then this must be a knock on effect of the lean years in Craft .
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 11, 2004 8:24:46 GMT
Bod
In answer to your question, I agree with Kizzy in part, but not all. It is interesting to note Kizzy says KT is the fastest growing order in Essex. This is probably true (I am not an Essex Mason). But in the 8 Provinces where I hold membership, all 8 Provinces have a different 'fastest growing' Degree. I believe this is purely down to the quality of; 1. The recruitement and recruiters (thier love for a particular order) 2. The Hierachy of the particular Order (whether or not they are approachable and inspirational) 3. Luck! (we all make our own).
Just for the record the Provinces I am in are; London, Surrey, Middlesex, Kent, Buckinghamshire, Neustrie & Flanders, Neustrie and Belgium.
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Post by Hubert (N. Z.) on Nov 12, 2004 2:48:15 GMT
Just out of interest, middlepillar are the Belgian/Flanders Lodges worked in French or flemish.
My mother is from Aalst (Alost), and I know there are 8000 Belgian Co-Masons, but now that I am in NZ have not had the opportunity of visiting any of them.
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Post by middlepillar on Nov 12, 2004 7:45:25 GMT
Hubert
Sorry to dissappoint you, our ceremonies are worked in English.
There are quite a lot of English speaking Orders in France, Belgium and Holland. They are all under the different constitutions (France GLNF etc). But all are allowed to practise the ritual in English.
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