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Post by holming on May 24, 2007 22:34:58 GMT
The 1 Million dollar Question... In my world I assume sometime during the Bible era..
Poll Question: How old i Freemasonary?..spelling mistake..sorry
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Post by maat on May 25, 2007 0:56:51 GMT
Well there are Eqyptian paintings which depict men wearing aprons in masonic stances. And there is some considerable literature around suggesting things along the line of Joseph being Imhotep, who was the Leonardo DaVinci of his day and the architect or Djoser's (Zoser) Step Pyramid (the first pyramid built). Imhotep was also revered for his wisdom. His pyramid contains galleries connected to a pit that extends down to a funerary chamber which contains an empty coffin. This chamber belonged to a very large mastaba tomb which contained a second chamber full of broken stone vessels, and in the tomb's storerooms were jars whose clay-stoppers had the seal impression of Djoser. Imhotep was also the "priest of Heliopolis," the biblical On. Heliopolis, means City of the Sun (Sol). So I guess there might be something to the rumours about Masonry and Ancient Egypt. Maat For those that are interested please check out "Suggested Merged Chronologies Of The Twelfth Dynasty Kings With Moses' Life Events" - about half way down the link.. arismhobeth.com/arismhobeth_FamilyTrees.htmlFascinating reading.
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Post by wayseer on May 25, 2007 4:47:54 GMT
I voted OTHER - I think Freemasoney can be traced to a specific time during the late 1600s. However, I would suggest that the ideas on which M is built have a far long genesis that stretch back to when we lived in caves and decided to bury our dead.
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giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
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Post by giovanni on May 25, 2007 4:49:56 GMT
other. At least from Egyptian civilisation
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Post by billmcelligott on May 25, 2007 10:09:26 GMT
I believe the emergence of the seedlings of freemasonry can be speculatively traced to the Exodus, I think the Hebrews brought out of Egypt the Building skills and orgainzational ability to create some quite wonderful things if we are to believe the Bible accounts.
Much of the Egyptian way of life was destroyed in battle and turmoil. Between the Greeks and the Romans, apart from the buildings not much was left. The surviving culture may well have been Hebrew.
There is surely not much doubt that Freemasonry has Jewish foundations. But I dont think like most things there is a specific start and end time, like most everything else it is a product of evolution, what worked was kept what did not work was discarded.
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Harmony
Member
The Craft ; 1241 & 1386 & 1706 (Hon) (SC). OSM - Polnoon Castle Conclave. HRA - Rockmount & Camphi
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Post by Harmony on May 25, 2007 10:57:04 GMT
In my view, at least 1057.
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giovanni
Member
odi profanum vulgus, et arceo
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Post by giovanni on May 25, 2007 14:33:31 GMT
In my view, at least 1057. why?
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Post by holming on May 26, 2007 20:29:26 GMT
I really like the notion that Freemasonry stem from the Eqyptians. But these ancient symbols could have been borrowed at a later point in time. I found an interesting article on Pietre-stones, from the Roman era. What are your comments on that? www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/Altar_Statius.html
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Post by hollandr on May 26, 2007 23:53:23 GMT
How ancient is the triple grip in HRA?
Is there even any theory about its origins?
If not, then is it time immemorial?
Cheers
Russell
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Harmony
Member
The Craft ; 1241 & 1386 & 1706 (Hon) (SC). OSM - Polnoon Castle Conclave. HRA - Rockmount & Camphi
Posts: 337
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Post by Harmony on May 29, 2007 19:46:45 GMT
In my view, at least 1057. why? Because that is when the Lodge of Glasgow St John No 3bis (Scottish Consitution) received its Charter from King Malcolm.
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Post by mrmason on Jun 4, 2007 9:00:51 GMT
"Because that is when the Lodge of Glasgow St John No 3bis (Scottish Consitution) received its Charter from King Malcolm."
I would say that it may be true in relation to Operative Masonry as opposed to Freemasonry. Was the charter no proven to be a forgery though?
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Post by tws on Jul 12, 2007 4:38:29 GMT
I think the origins of what became Freemasonry go back to the 1400's. I tend to agree with the views of the late Bro. John J. Robinson set out in "Born in Blood." It is the explanation that makes the most sense to me.
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Y Mahomed
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Post by Y Mahomed on Jul 19, 2007 21:06:53 GMT
I believe that masonry is as old as time, why? because there is a lodge of eternity in the ether, so whether it was only communicated to humans a couple of millenia ago is irrelevant, Freemasonry has always existed and will never cease to exist. Freemasonry has also existed through the ages under different guises.
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Post by hopefulmason on Jul 31, 2007 13:26:34 GMT
I agree with playto. Well put brother
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jmd
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Post by jmd on Aug 13, 2007 13:23:56 GMT
"Freemasonry has also existed through the ages under different guises" - but then, was it actually Freemasonry? or does this mean no more than there have been other initiatic orders (or societies or colleges etc) before Freemasonry, and there will likely be after (if ever) Freemasonry ceases to be?
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Post by lauderdale on Aug 13, 2007 13:37:09 GMT
Bro JMD. I would say the answer to that would be Yes. The key tenets of what most of us would now understand to be Freemasonry were no doubt contained in other bodies before the emergence of Speculative Freemasonry in 17th Century Scotland and later in England and I am sure that if Freemasonry as we now know it with its GLs etc were to die out the principles and tenets would live on in another "host".
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Post by hollandr on Aug 14, 2007 4:07:54 GMT
>"Freemasonry has also existed through the ages under different guises" - but then, was it actually Freemasonry?
I think this is addressed by Pike (as I recall) who says that the ritual is the outer form of Freemasonry and is changed periodically while the inner teachings remain the same
So perhaps before the KST metaphor we were sons of light - the Great Pyramid with its white limestone casing being The Lighthouse. I attended an installation a few months ago and in one of the hymns we did indeed sing that we are sons of light
Cheers
Russell
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jmd
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Post by jmd on Aug 15, 2007 3:04:22 GMT
I am in total agreement that prior to Freemasonry were other initiatic orders, and that some of Freemasonry's tenets or impulse manifested therein. Is it fair to call that, however, Freemasonry?
For example, I am in total agreement that the Roman Colleges form one of the predecessors of what became Freemasonry. Also, some of the rites of various more esoterically inclined Greek and Egyptian mystery religions in part shaped what eventually became Freemasonry. What I do not accept, however, is to call those Freemasonry.
One can find, by analogy, many similarities between even such disparate religions as Tibetan Buddhism and Roman Catholicism (in both form and spiritual content), without thereby jumping the mark and call one by the other - of course, a major criticism of my example is that these are contemporaneous, whereas the other anachronous. Still, the point remains.
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 15, 2007 5:10:17 GMT
Bro. JMD, I can back you up on that with some real archeology! I've got pics!
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Post by thedixiemason on Aug 15, 2007 5:13:07 GMT
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