|
Post by corab on Oct 4, 2008 8:40:10 GMT
Nowhere else but here do the debates on reason v. experience get so heated as here, and I wonder what gives.
I truly cannot see the importance of proving one's point one way or the other. To what end is so much time dedicated on the man-made struggle between science v. spirituality when it is so blatantly obvious that they are two sides of the same coin, and wholeness arises from approaching them "when conjoined"?
Duality is a given in freemasonry -- I'd even go so far as to say that it is a given in life -- but the challenge is to Raise ourselves above the separate aspects and create stability by applying both in harmonious balance, thus to create a greater whole. To do so, some aspects of whatever our prevalent mode is, must be sacrificed, so that balance and awareness may be the result.
Defending one's corner one way or the other only perpetuates the divide, when we are called to unite.
h.g.w.,
Cora
|
|
Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
|
Post by Tamrin on Oct 4, 2008 9:40:22 GMT
When a thing is said to be not worth refuting you may be sure that either it is flagrantly stupid - in which case all comment is superfluous - or it is something formidable, the very crux of the problem.
Percy Bysshe Shelley
|
|
Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
|
Post by Tamrin on Oct 4, 2008 9:46:05 GMT
To what end is so much time dedicated on the man-made struggle between science v. spirituality when it is so blatantly obvious that they are two sides of the same coin, and wholeness arises from approaching them "when conjoined"? What of "spirituality" being depicted not as a unity but as, in essence, alienation, plurality and division?
|
|
Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
|
Post by Tamrin on Oct 4, 2008 22:41:05 GMT
When one comes to understand what "spirit" actually is, one starts to connect the dots on one's own and science actually starts to make sense. Agreed. One also needs to keep in mind the capacity and limits of science. Prof. Joseph Campbell wrote on the subject, saying ( Myths to Live By, pp.16/7): But now, finally, what would the meaning be of the word "truth" to a modern scientist? Surely not the meaning it would have for a mystic! For the really great and essential fact about the scientific revelation—the most wonderful and most challenging fact—is that science does not and cannot pretend to be "true" in any absolute sense. It does not and cannot pretend to be final. It is a tentative organization of mere "working hypotheses" ... that for the present appear to take into account all the relevant facts now known.
And is there no implied intention, then, to rest satisfied with some final body or sufficient number of facts?
No indeed! There is to be only a continuing search for more—as of a mind eager to grow. And that growth, as long as it lasts, will be the measure of the life of modern Western man, and of the world with all its promise that he has brought and is still bringing into being; which is to say, a world of change, new thoughts, new things, new magnitudes, and continuing transformation, not of petrifaction, rigidity, and some canonized found "truth."
|
|
imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
|
Post by imakegarb on Oct 5, 2008 5:09:24 GMT
Bro. Cora, I've seen some pretty heated debates on that topic elsewhere, online and off, even in other Masonic forums. It does seem to be happening at MFOL just now but it's not unique to MFOL.
Your other points are well taken.
Also, I am very mindful of this time of year, when it seems things can get very ugly in online discussion (not just Masonic). It's about this time of year I see a bit more hypersensitivity and a lot more in the way of flame wars and forum melt downs. I've no clue why this should be, especially when it happens in all parts of the Internet, but it is my observation that it's so.
I'm starting to see glimmers of it here just now.
So I urge a bit more consideration and understanding on everyone's part just now.
|
|
|
Post by billmcelligott on Oct 5, 2008 7:29:12 GMT
If we are honest, I think there is a ' I am cleverer than you' attitude attached to some of the postings.
I don't think we can ever get rid of that, anyone who sits and contemplates their naval, thinks they do it better than the guy contemplating next to them.
I of course am cleverer than all of you. I know this because I have the largest naval and it takes a great deal of time to contemplate it.
The reality is we all have an opinion, we would not have that opinion if we did not think it superior to all other opinion. The hardest part is to respect that others have an equally viable opinion.
Science is provable one way or another.
The interesting thing about Spirituality is those that originate spiritual thinking such as Jesus, Mohamed, Ghandi etc. all have tolerance of others peoples opinion, unfortunately as time passes we do not learn this lesson. What makes them strong is their acceptance of others, not their rejection.
|
|
|
Post by leonardo on Oct 5, 2008 8:07:44 GMT
The, "I'm right, you're wrong," attitude is evident on occasion here as else where, perhaps more so here. Tolerance of another's view is also evident, but sadly not enough for my liking.
|
|
|
Post by lauderdale on Oct 5, 2008 9:42:50 GMT
Is one of the effects of the Autumnal Equinox to increase people's sensitivity? I have noticed in the mundane world of work what tempers fray far easier than at other times. Little mistakes that would be overlooked are highlighted and even such trivial matters such as borrowing a tool and forgetting to return it will spark of harsh words. I have always detested Autumn (Fall) even when I was a kid.
On the other hand I have always noticed that people are more cheerful at the time of the Vernal Equinox.
|
|
Tamrin
Member
Nosce te ipsum
Posts: 3,586
|
Post by Tamrin on Oct 5, 2008 9:53:55 GMT
Perhaps its a clash of hemispheres!?
|
|
imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
|
Post by imakegarb on Oct 5, 2008 17:32:11 GMT
Bro. Steve, your observations much mirror mine.
The odd thing is I've noticed no difference between the hemisphere. I've been member to a number of online forums with international membership, including many from Bro. Keith/Ma'at/Philip's (I hope I didn't leave anyone out) part of the world, and I've noticed the same strangeness. So I don't think it's the season.
Unfortunately, all I can do is observe and that often means I can't pinpoint the cause, such as in this case.
So I don't know what's causing it but each year I try to call upon online folks to be extra considerate and let more stuff bounce off them.
|
|
imakegarb
Member
One wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie
Posts: 3,573
|
Post by imakegarb on Oct 5, 2008 20:21:39 GMT
OMG!! It just occurred to me what's going on Star Trek, " Day of the Dove" K, maybe not *exactly* like this but . . . wow. There's "a strange swirl of energy" that churns up on the Internet this time of year. It feeds on us being all nasty toward each other. Well, there's only one way to drive it off. Be all happy and cheerful. That's my theory. I'm sticking to it
|
|
ruffashlar
Member
Lodge Milncroft No. 1515 (GLoS), Govanhill Royal Arch Chapter 523 (S.G.R.A.C.S.)
Posts: 2,184
|
Post by ruffashlar on Feb 26, 2009 20:08:48 GMT
A:"I'm right, you're wrong." B:"No, I'm right, you're wrong." A:"No, I'm right, you're wrong." B:"No, I'm right, you're wrong."
If both sides say the same thing, where's the conflict?
|
|