Going Insane!

[Nosameerf]

I was reading another thread here, where some posters where saying that dabbling in certain arts may cause problems in peoples lives. This might even result in a mental health issues or even suicide. How do you recognise that is is happening to you and why does it happen. Is it like a karmic curse, the result of entities or just a predisposition to mental health problems? How do you avoid such problems or cope with them?
I find many topics on here fascinating and I admire the people who are willing to practice the knowledge they have gained. I just wonder if their journey has been entirely risk free? Any information or links you could give me would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Nosameerf

[terrible]

Hmm, seems like you've been dabbling in that pesky Posterama thread.

My journey coming to work is hardly ever risk free--at any given moment a deer or a coydog can run out in front of my vehicle.

Regarding the spiritual journey, I try to keep grounded, i.e., if you're going to be focusing a large part of one's time focusing on things that are invisible, it's a great idea to approach these topics with common sense as well as some knowledge. If you're going to read about some of this stuff, it's good to take a balanced approach and not believe every wack-job author out there that's trying to make a buck from gullible seekers.

I've encountered a few strange things such as flying wolves and even a few stray entities. Hard to accept that the flying wolf was real, although a friend was close by and he saw the same thing...he brought it up a few years ago if I remembered that incident, and I assured him that I did, although it happened about 30 years ago. I shrug stuff like that off since there's no point in dwelling on it.

The entity thing was a little different; it was more like a presence that had attached itself to someone living with me, and was causing some problems. What happened is that a few others got together and formed a Wicca-circle with the salt, said some incantations and it flew away. Unfortunately, I wasn't really into the Wicca thing, but was curious enough to see what would happen, so I was up in my part of the loft meditation when the thing or whatever, came at me. It was quite shocking, really, but I had taken the precaution of enclosing my body in a bubble of white light, which I've believe will keep the nasties away. Sure enough, he couldn't get at me, and although it skeered the poop out of me, almost, I just yelled at it and like I say it flew off.

I believe that it went downstairs, and yes, that it had something to do with my friend that committed suicide, as right after that he began acting even stranger than before. I could tell something was up, but he had a way of avoiding us and by the time he was driven to take his own life, I had already moved away from there. I wouldn't exactly say that I thought he was "possessed", but I definitely could sense some sort of malignant influence that had never been there before. On the other hand, he was involved with some pretty dark stuff, and well, like attracts like. Be careful what you wish for I think is the moral of that one.

I can't explain that kind of stuff. Was it real? When he was hanging there, it certainly was. Well Maximus will probably laugh at me but I don't give a flying rip about that. As I understand things there are various levels of reality and this entity thing just doesn't connect on our plane, although it was trying to manifest in a corporeal way, I think. I keep in mind that these evil things are here to test us and ultimately they serve the higher Good.

I don't think it's a karmic curse; karma is more of a natural law, I think, with immediate results. Like the John Lennon song, it's gonna getcha.

I cope with these things by laughing at them and dispelling the thought of evil lurking. This annoys some of our forumites to no end but since it's a true and tried technique and seems to work, why question it?

As to my mental health, as you can perhaps assume I am crazy as a loon.

Just stay grounded, get help if you encounter something over your head and when all else fails, pray to the Deity.

[Augur]

I've had 4 acquaintances of mine institutionalized (they're better now) and seen probably over a dozen self-destruct working in the esoteric field.

My general observations on the how and why of it are:

1. Crazy to begin with. People tend to begin this work with imbalances. Often severe ones. Sometimes delusional complexes. Without serious safeguards and efforts to address them the imbalances magnify as the practitioner feeds them. Not a happy ending.

2. Substance abuse. Sort of like #1. Escapist personalities seeking escape in the esoteric world. They double down with escapist substances. I knew an alchemist who would work on marijuana, mushrooms and LSD. His body is still around here somewhere, living and breathing, but he's somewhere else.

3. Egoists. People who feel a lack of control in their everyday lives and wish to gain better control of it esoterically. They seek power to do this. They work hard and get that power, only to earn the epiphany that not only is the power they've gained not what they thought it was, but also that they're more tiny and insignificant that they ever dreamt possible. Exit stage left.

That's about all that pops to mind at the moment, though there are more types I'm sure if I think about it longer. Really, as Frere points out you need to use caution and common sense like anything else. You don't hit the highway the first time you drive a car and you don't ever do it high or drunk unless you're interested in experiencing the all too common and tragic ending of such a pursuit.

Also a guide is a good idea. Someone who's walked the path before. Books are trouble as are 'teachers' or anyone else that would pretend they're above you in any matter. Shun anyone like that.

But in a pinch caution and common sense will take you far.

S&F

[maximus]

This where a structured envionment comes into play. Within the Wiccan, Golden Dawn and Thelemic diciplines, the seeker is brought into elemental balance before engaging in more advanced practices. The assistance of a mentor to monitor one's advancement is important. Books, as has been pointed out, are a good way to get in trouble, unless one approaches the information systematically and sticks to reputable authors like Regardie, Fortune, Crowley and British Traditional Wiccans like Janet Farrar. Study of Qabalah is paramount - it allows one to classify entities by their correspondances and reveals their true nature - never "believe" what an entity says, test and verify.

[magusmasonica]

Sept 22, 2009 15:59:12 GMT Augur said:

I've had 4 acquaintances of mine institutionalized (they're better now) and seen probably over a dozen self-destruct working in the esoteric field.

My general observations on the how and why of it are:

1. Crazy to begin with. People tend to begin this work with imbalances. Often severe ones. Sometimes delusional complexes. Without serious safeguards and efforts to address them the imbalances magnify as the practitioner feeds them. Not a happy ending.

2. Substance abuse. Sort of like #1. Escapist personalities seeking escape in the esoteric world. They double down with escapist substances. I knew an alchemist who would work on marijuana, mushrooms and LSD. His body is still around here somewhere, living and breathing, but he's somewhere else.

3. Egoists. People who feel a lack of control in their everyday lives and wish to gain better control of it esoterically. They seek power to do this. They work hard and get that power, only to earn the epiphany that not only is the power they've gained not what they thought it was, but also that they're more tiny and insignificant that they ever dreamt possible. Exit stage left.

That's about all that pops to mind at the moment, though there are more types I'm sure if I think about it longer. Really, as Frere points out you need to use caution and common sense like anything else. You don't hit the highway the first time you drive a car and you don't ever do it high or drunk unless you're interested in experiencing the all too common and tragic ending of such a pursuit.

Also a guide is a good idea. Someone who's walked the path before. Books are trouble as are 'teachers' or anyone else that would pretend they're above you in any matter. Shun anyone like that.

But in a pinch caution and common sense will take you far.

S&F

I agree, this is a great post. Working with some arts can be dangerous, just like working with dangerous chemicals are dangerous, or working with machinery is dangerous. If you are prepared, know what you are dealing with and remain alert you'll be just fine. Know what your doing, follow the saftey procedures.

It is more likely you will loose a finger to a table saw than your mind to an invocation.

Now, one thing to remember about this forum. Many hate the idea of anyone doing anything for themselves as opposed to blindly following the rules of others. These people seek to protect thier collective will at all costs and one of the devices they use to do this is fear. Fear of being ostricized, fear of being mislead and if those don't work yes, fear of insanity. It is a desperate act by desperate people with little to zero core integrity.

Love and Light,

[maximus]

Sept 22, 2009 16:53:35 GMT magusmasonica said:

Now, one thing to remember about this forum. Many hate the idea of anyone doing anything for themselves as opposed to blindly following the rules of others. These people seek to protect thier collective will at all costs and one of the devices they use to do this is fear. Fear of being ostricized, fear of being mislead and if those don't work yes, fear of insanity. It is a desperate act by desperate people with little to zero core integrity.

It's not all about you Brad. You need to stop whining, it's gotten old.

[middlepillar]

Bro Nosameerf

This question actually ties in nicely with my criticism of Architekt. And his constant poting of info on certain 'Higher' Degrees!

The most important thing in my mind is that you reach every level you attain at the right time, too much knowlege with not enough practical experience is where the danger lies. Think about my signature! The internet is a wonderful tool but it also has its downside!

When I work I follow the rules that I was taught, I follow the ritual and make sure I am in tune with what is happening. It has been said be careful what you wish for, never a truer word was said!

I too know people that have suffered terrible mental illness through asking for things that should not be asked for!

I think I have said to you it always amazes me that Freemasons who profess a belief in God are constantly surprised when he or one of his representatives deign to visit the Temple! Especially when he has been invited by them There again its all a load of b*****!

In answer to another of your questions, I have never felt in danger, and if I did I would cease my work immediately

[Nosameerf]

I want to say thank you for all your detailed posts. I admit that I am slightly wary about having a go at such things myself. Mainly because of stories that I have heard of people bringing things over and then not being able to get rid of them à la The Entity.
I have started reading some introductory books regarding the Kabbalah and I was surprised at how interesting I found them. That's why I posted my question... Just in case I started seeing hallways cascading with blood and picking up an axe screaming 'Here's Johnny'.
So the generally rules would be not be to overstretch yourself and have good intentions? I think its best if I carry on reading for now and getting a better understanding of all the information out there. Then again, too much info can have a paralyzing affect!
Thanks everyone.

[magusmasonica]

One also has to take with a large grain of salt those who assume who you are, where you have been and where you are going who don't know you.

The internet it full of people like this.

Love and Light,

[middlepillar]

Could I sk everyone to consider the moderators when making 'little unessessary posts'.

Thanks

[KNOs1s]

I think there are many paths that might lead to insanity depending on the level of gullibility with which you enter them. Some are based on fooling yourself into thinking things without critical and objective evidence. Many will admit to seeing something they thought was supernatural or preternatural, yet have accepted explanations to the exclusion of more probable, if more boring, possibilities. Magic, supernatural research, religion, and even pseudo-science can lead one to be swayed into believing a dogmatic view of the interpretation of their results if they do not approach it with a critical mind.

Carl Sagan said, "If you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense in you, then you cannot distinguish useful ideas from the worthless ones." This, most certainly, is madness.

[sammy]

Im not sure for everyone but in my own experiances i have more then a few times wondered if i was over the edge solely due to the thoughts i was getting. But these thoughts arent new they are just random and sometimes we can vividly recall memory as fluid as a conversation. I know who I am though, and these thoughts (wich could be interpreted as voices) are as much a reminder of reality as they are a test on what youl convince yourself to do to people. This I think would only explain a certain amount depending on the amount of inbalance in the person. If you take seperate personalities into consideration it is realy like a two sided party and if your mental side disagrees it has a very bad power over you being your thoughts. It almost felt like to me that they were all old thoughts that i didnt understand and are now comming to surface for an answer. If somehow the thought didnt want to listen to how i would treat that certain situation (similair to being prepared if the worste happens) why would I then take it upon myself to force it to listen to me, and/or possibly do a "voices" will that i didn't originaly agree with. I talk about cores and beliefs so much because they are a foundation of simplicity and if all else is stripped of you you will have a pillow to fall on. I fear no evil for thou art with me.

[ruffashlar]

reputable authors like Regardie, Fortune, Crowley and British Traditional Wiccans like Janet Farrar.

Can anyone spot the odd one out? Or was this intended in jest?

[vajranagini]

I am assuming you are referring to Aleister Crowley. In point of fact Crowley WAS an adept; a JERKISH one to be sure, but STILL an adept, and I would NOT hestitate to recommend, say, "Magick Without Tears" to a beginner with questionsabout "the Path"!

As a Hermetic Qabalist, I can say unhesitatingly that reading Aleister Crowley let me KNOW I was on the RIGHT TRACK; his account of his own experiences on the Path helped reassure me that I was NOT "losing my mind" and that my experiences were GENUINE.

The funny thing is, that many years previously I would NOT touch anything Crowley with am 11 foot POLE, because EVERYBODY I met who was 'into" him was an IDIOT. Also, you could NEVER have told me that I would become a member of OTO, yet I DID so, and it was in fact NECESSARY for my ongoing spiritual progress! Not saying that that's how it would be for everyone, but that's how it was for ME.

I STILL think Crowley was a HUGE JERK, but his expertise in things magickal is truly unequalled; it was his PERSONAL LIFE that was a MESS. I have heard it said that Crowley can be relied on in things that do NOT involve his PERSONAL LIFE, and I would say that was a pretty ACCURATE assessment. Remember, also, that BOTH Dion Fortune and I. Regardie took instruction from him, and Regardie ALWAYS respected Crowley, even when they went their separate ways!

[vajranagini]

I have to say, when I started having the awakening of the Kundalini at the age of 36, I was immediately met with what were unmistakable signs of what I termed 'archangelic angelic interference'; it was a "period of madness", and had I not had them "running interference" for me, I might not have survived the awakening of the "God -consciousness within me. if I had not heard of Shri Ramakrishna and more importantly, his wife, the incarnation of the Black Virgin of Dakshineswar, I would never have survived the mental storms that involve such a great shift in awareness as was involved in undertaking the Tantric path.

The two main obstacles on this "Kula Path" involve purity and freedom; one must be free from bodily cravings, selfish desires, and fear of death in order to attain to the awareness that exists beyond the physical . It was via the teachings of my Tantric guru "Vimalanana" "(whose doings and main teachings are chronicled in the three part series "Aghora : at the Left Hand of God", by Dr. Robert E. Svoboda) that gave me the necessary discipline and metal self-control to undertake the Path of Sita/Radha" that "hath kept me safe thus far...."

...and which inspired me to renew my acquaintance with Hermetic Qabalah. A Qabalistic adept is expected to be on 'speaking terms" with numbers, I opted to start with numbers three, five, and eight, respectively. Fortunately for me, I had already made some progress on the Path as an initiate into the Left Hand Mysteries of Isis-Urania, (the latter day interpretation of the Black Virgin) and this made for rapid progress, lo these many years later!

I was contacted by two beings claiming to be "archangels", at was thanks to Crowley that I had the necessary infornation available to be able to ask them searching questions that only they could answer and so establish their credentials! It was they, in fact, it was they that told me that if I wanted to pursue the issue of spiritual attainment employing the Qabalah, that I would have to "join an Order"; the necessary information I needed could them be imparted with impunity, since I would then be "under its aegis".

I agreed to do so, and the result was my joining OTO six weeks later, when an old friend suddelny revealed himself as a member of the local OTO chapter. I had been engaged in an astral battle with some Tibetan monks and he suggested I join OTO "for my own protection", whatever that meant...I was later to find out, and the short answer is that it involved Freemasonry and the Knights Templar, when "The Hiram Key" opened a mental vault on the past. When I read Crowley's books, I recognized someone on the same journey I was, and suddenly there was "method to the madness".

I theorize that people who have not been initiated are 'torn apart" by the clash of energies represented by the 'rising of the Kundalini", hence the arising of "madness" so often referred to. however, one will notice that the OUTSIDE world is participating in the "madness"as well; and it is thus that the the "unmediated "archetype manifests itself in one's life.

One of the most important teachings I received from "Guru Vimalananda" about Kundalini involved the necessity of belief in a personal God, or failing that, a commitment to Truth. Without a mental God-form for the Kundalini to "inhabit", so to speak ("The Khabs is in the Khu, not the Khu in the Khabs") the awakened Kundalini will self-identify with the limited physical body and cause all kinds of untoward symptoms as a result. Gopi Krishna's accounts of his experience with untrammeled Kundalini stands as a personal testament to the devastating effects of a wrongly awakend kundalini under no sort of spiritual control.

The commitment to a spiritual ideal and its culmination in personal revelation is what is meant by the "Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel".