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Post by theplumbtruth on Oct 17, 2009 21:21:32 GMT
I'm curious to hear what others think about the above. Do you think Masonic ritual incorporates Ceremonial Magick?
I know if I asked any two people in my lodge I would likely hear two different answers.
In my craft work it is generally agreed and understand that we work a more esoteric or mystical aspect of Masonry. This is not true for all of LDH, but pretty standard in the U.S.
I don't ask the above lightly (no pun intended). It appears to me that the term of Ceremonial Magick can make a lot of Freemasons uncomfortable and I am trying to understand why. I know there are varying definitions to magick, theurgy, ritual, ceremony, etc. but it is my personal belief that any time we knowingly attempt to raise, acknowledge or seek out the unseen energies or forces of the universe we are in a sense working 'magick'. The term connotes for so many something dark and sinister (though the whole concept of there being something dark and sinister apart from what we are tapping into is a subject unto itself).
For me, ceremonial magick is no different whether worked within a Wiccan circle or within a Masonic lodge. I see us calling upon the energies of the unkown, reverring and sanctifying them, and working these energies for the good of ourselves and to the benefit of humanity. I've had far more mystical experiences in lodge than I ever have in a pagan circle. Most likely because Masonry is my mother craft and the work I have grown up in.
So I ask with all sincerity what others think.
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Post by lauderdale on Oct 17, 2009 22:18:16 GMT
Since moving to LDH three years ago I would say YES!
That is my personal opinion.
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mgc
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Post by mgc on Oct 17, 2009 22:27:05 GMT
in the good old days, magic was commonplace.. thanks to the religious institute that perceived magic as a threat, it was blackened in the dark ages (pun intended).. slowly but surely that institute is losing its grip on the minds of the ppl, but unfortunately there r still huge amounts of sheep that need/want to be led by shepherds..
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Post by theplumbtruth on Oct 17, 2009 23:40:18 GMT
And hopefully our Brethren are not sheep, but all free and independent thinkers.
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Post by magusmasonica on Oct 18, 2009 6:25:26 GMT
And hopefully our Brethren are not sheep, but all free and independent thinkers. Unfortunatley, reality has taught me the oppesite. One would find mmore Freethinkers in a funde church than your average group of Masons. Love and Light, |
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Post by magusmasonica on Oct 18, 2009 6:27:14 GMT
" Iamblichus, the Alexandrian philosopher, in writing of the Mysteries, says: “Using the reason alone Man can never come to any true realization of what he is in himself; that is, he can never understand by the mind alone that he is an eternal spiritual entity, a brilliant star shining by the light of its own essence.” Iamblichus makes it quite clear that “not by discursive reasoning or through philosophical thinking alone does one come into fellowship with the gods. It is through the awakening of the higher spiritual powers by means of the rites of theurgy that the consummation of the long ages is effected.”
Now “theurgy” is simply another name for magic—the magic of the Masonic ritual, let us say, the modern vehicle of the Ancient Mysteries through which the Seeker for the Light may find reality. This great purpose is beautifully stated by Bro. Wilmshurst. “The union of the personal soul with its divine principle—Masonry has no other objective than this,” says Bro. Wilmshurst. “All other matters of interest connected with it are but details subsidiary to this supreme achievement.”
Freemasonry is ceremonial magic—a mystical system established in the dim ages of the past by those spiritual teachers who were the guides of our infant humanity, and which remains today the chalice of the wisdom, unchanged in its inner potency, ever available to all who seek. The neophyte entering a Masonic lodge has this wonderful opportunity to find the ancient path, but that “door which gives upon the Infinite” will open only for the candidate whose deepest longing is for spiritual understanding."
By The Very Ills Brother Edith F. Armour 33°
I would agree.
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Post by middlepillar on Oct 18, 2009 13:01:52 GMT
The Plumb Truth
The honest answer to your question is yes in some ceremonies, in others no, none at all.
Steve, I am really surprised to hear you say that since you moved to LDH your answer is yes! I would of put money on you knowing it before then, there are several orders where Theurgy is in common practice.
Brad, unfortuanately you must know so many different brothers to me. I have met thousands on my journey, and they are extremely interested in all aspects. It could well be that they do not open out to you or bother to expand thier views with you because of past history. I would admit there are some Freemasons who really do not understand much about what is going on, I have greater faith in my brothers than you obviously do!
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Post by lauderdale on Oct 18, 2009 13:55:29 GMT
Bro MP. I was quite aware of such matters before my transition to LDH, but what I found was that whereas it is discounted in another Masonic Body, in LDH such matters are accepted.
I have no wish to make this an UGLE Vs LDH thread but I have to say that is how I found things.
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Post by magusmasonica on Oct 18, 2009 18:23:59 GMT
The Plumb Truth The honest answer to your question is yes in some ceremonies, in others no, none at all. Steve, I am really surprised to hear you say that since you moved to LDH your answer is yes! I would of put money on you knowing it before then, there are several orders where Theurgy is in common practice. Brad, unfortuanately you must know so many different brothers to me. I have met thousands on my journey, and they are extremely interested in all aspects. It could well be that they do not open out to you or bother to expand thier views with you because of past history. I would admit there are some Freemasons who really do not understand much about what is going on, I have greater faith in my brothers than you obviously do! Bro.Chris, Keep in mind that experience shapes our opinions. I have run into the most nasty people I have ever met in my life in Freemasonry. I must admit when I meet a new Mason I am instantly cautious to the point of being distrustful. That being said I have met some of the most wonderful people. People who I love, love me and we would do anything for each other. Love and Light, |
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Post by middlepillar on Oct 18, 2009 18:52:39 GMT
Steve
I have no intention of making it a UGLE v LDH thread either! Your post states you became aware of it after joining LDH, having corrected that statement I can see what you now meant but it was not clear before. I will only say what I have said many times before, I have found it all within UGLE it is just simply the people and lodges we encounter along the way, I have obviously been luckier in this respect than you were.
Brad
It is indeed our own personal experiences that shape the way we think. This is probably the main reason I try to practice as much tolerance as possible. I am truly very happy that you have found a place that fits and works for you, as I am for Steve.
I have always believed that UGLE should at least 'recognise' (not neccassarily intervisit though) other masonic GLs that conform to the basic principles as they do with Women Only masonry, I suppose it is easier for them to recognise Women only GLs because they are not in danger of losing any members to them!!
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Post by blackberry on Oct 18, 2009 21:17:10 GMT
This is a two sided sword. One conversation about ritual magic. The other about the politics of GL's. So polar are the opposites that I fear the two may be detrimental to one another in a general sense.
I believe and feel very strongly that masonic ritual is magical in intent. Its all in there. However, you have to be tuned to the correct frequency (so to speak) to hear the right channels. I keep hearing of co-masonry and other GL's and am very curious as to whether I am missing out on something here. Is there anyone here who knows of a very intense and full-on version of masonry?? I find myself looking for more. Especially on the esoteric/magical front.
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Post by maat on Oct 18, 2009 23:23:12 GMT
I believe and feel very strongly that masonic ritual is magical in intent. Its all in there. However, you have to be tuned to the correct frequency (so to speak) to hear the right channels. I keep hearing of co-masonry and other GL's and am very curious as to whether I am missing out on something here. Is there anyone here who knows of a very intense and full-on version of masonry?? I find myself looking for more. Especially on the esoteric/magical front. Blackberry.. LDH works the Lauderdale Ritual which is more overtly esoteric in content, albeit it is not that far removed from the ritual you would be used to. We have a Mystic Charge in addition to the usual one, we use a censor as does a priest at a Catholic mass (and for the same purpose), then there are the elementals.. Ceremonies, like meditation, help raise our personal 'vibes' - ie expand our consciousness beyond the normal every day range. We hear more, we see more, we know more. I have posted this here before, it is a photo of our lodgeroom before it was opened for the nights work.  Modern day cameras are more able to catch what our eyes cannot. (I believe the military type infrared cameras can too). Now some will say that what you see at the base of the lamp is just a speck of dust. But I would say that that same pattern appeared above the crown of one of our members and another was over his heart... amazing coincidence for a speck of dust to be so placed. Maat img39.imageshack.us/img39/4319/wheelswithinwheels.png |
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Post by bluebeard on Oct 19, 2009 18:23:43 GMT
from my exposure to other orders who work w/ energies, I can truly say I've seen these energies in the EA ritual at a regular lodge here in U.S.
in LVX,
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Nosameerf
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Masonic Saturday Night Fever!
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Post by Nosameerf on Oct 19, 2009 20:33:51 GMT
I would say that that same pattern appeared above the crown of one of our members and another was over his heart... amazing coincidence for a speck of dust to be so placed. Can I ask you Maat please, if the pattern was visible to all members of the lodge who were present or only to a select few? Also, do you think this might be a commonplace occurrence in lodges or does there have to be a certain energy, belief or ambience? Thanks.  |
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Post by maat on Oct 19, 2009 22:23:45 GMT
This pattern and those that appeared in the group photos was not visible to anyone at the time they were only picked up by the camera, which has a wider range of vision than our physical eyes. I refer to them as Reiki Orbs because that is where I first came across this sort of thing... check out this link, and zoom in for a closer look. Spirit heals. www.reiki.net.au/copy.asp?id=reikiorbsMaat |
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Post by maat on Oct 19, 2009 22:29:36 GMT
Nosa... you might like to check out post #199 in the photo section.. an orb there has actually
blurred the face of one of the Brn.
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Post by maat on Oct 19, 2009 22:45:32 GMT
Nosa .. forgot to mention to take special notice of how some of the orbs in the healing table photos are above several of the chakras. (Each person has seven main chakras... www.tantra-kundalini.com/index.htm)Microcosmically - the seven officers of the lodge or temple? Maat |
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Nosameerf
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Masonic Saturday Night Fever!
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Post by Nosameerf on Oct 19, 2009 22:50:34 GMT
Nosa... you might like to check out post #199 in the photo section.. an orb there has actually blurred the face of one of the Brn. I apologise but I can't seem to find that post and I can't seem to find a search option by post number. Can someone give me a quick tutorial or a direct link to that picture? That aside, I have personally seem an orb once. I was sitting round a computer with my girlfriend and sister, when suddenly a seemingly solid white sphere shot out from under the desk and almost immediately back again. Both my sister and I jumped back shocked but my girlfriend apparently missed it or just couldn't see it. The fact that my sister witnessed it was a great relief to me, because otherwise I would have probably dismissed it as a trick of the light or something else. Those are some great photo's by the way on that sight. I am just browsing through them now. Thanks for that. |
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Post by theplumbtruth on Oct 19, 2009 23:07:55 GMT
Bro Nosa,
To add on to what Bro Maat has shared, experiences whether they are the ability to see the orbs or any other type of experience can vary so widely could be a topic and thread all it's own. As for the orbs in the pictures (which I find absolutely enthralling and totally possible) who's to say if another person might experience something visual and perhaps see another person's aura instead.
You asked if there had to be a certain energy, belief, or ambience for these types of things to happen. Some Brethren no matter how esoteric a lodge may be, may never see or experience anything out of the ordinary. Or someone else may have the most mystical experience in their life simply lighting a candle in prayer, or hugging a tree. Certainly the more you study or practice working with unseen energies, the more likely you will start to 'tune-in' to them and notice things not of this realm. I've found that, for me anyway, that I am more likely to experience the unknown the greater the number of members in a lodge meeting. It has nothing to do with a particular ceremony, but more with the combined thoughts of everyone attending. I've watched energies ripple across the temple floor and then only really become alarmed when I realized that I could make the ripple wave move across the floor and up and down the walls, as I wanted. It's when you cross over that threshold and realize that you can and do interact with unseen energies, forces, or whatever you choose to call it, that the true morals and principles of beeing an upstanding Freemason come into play. That to me is the true 'ahhhhhh' factor of a mystical experience, knowing that what you are capable of is and always will be put to work to the benefit of humanity.
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Post by generatics on Oct 20, 2009 0:28:41 GMT
i go all over the place on this topic. yes, i certainly do believe that our ritual is ceremonial magick. where i start to seesaw is whether or not it's actually working and why. i know many Bren. that couldn't care less about the esoteric, or even the casually spiritual, sides of the Craft. i'd venture that most of these fellas are not even aware of such things, they simply are not involved for those reasons. and then i know a few others who are distinctly the opposite. i've seen candidates try to hold back laughter through the entire event and then go to the bar afterward, and others brought to tears with clear physical and emotional impact.
on one hand, i think a Brother must want it and be receptive and open for it to work. and on the other hand, i wonder if it is largely alchemical and scientific, and so should it just have the same effect no matter what? or maybe it's up to the Brethren performing the initiation? can a Lodge working the ritual powerfully and with all of their will impose the same effect on an initiate regardless of his openness or even his understanding? what if he is there so he can just get his ring and be part of the club? can we still trigger this catalyst within him if he doesn't know he wants it?
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